Is it madness or are we all stinking rich?

[CourseEight]

Originally Posted by Dajak

These are not authentic if they make them the same as long time before because the simple answer these are not from the time period that they orginally made in.
repro weapons are these.

I have to respectfully disagree with this argument as stated, though perhaps not the actual meaning. I personally think the most important point in defining "authenticity" is simply what purpose the creator of a given object had when he created it. If a village craftsman is creating a certain type of object for a member of his people, in the manner it has traditionally been made, to be used as his people have traditionally used it, I would not consider this to be a reproduction.

Obviously with certain types of objects, specifically weapons created strictly for combat, it is not possible to make a truly authentic item. However even today, weapons used for hunting, for parade/festival, for talismanic purposes, or for day-to-day utility can be made to serve the same purpose they did 100 years ago. I doubt very much the people using them consider them to be reproductions, just not as old. This is not to say that these are in any way as valuable as older examples, which for the most part it is assumed have seen more authentic usage. But if a weapon was specifically created for some gentleman during his visit to some village 150 years ago, it would have seen no more usage than one created today specifically for me. What does this say about the autenticity even of objects in old collections? I don't know...

I haven't been collecting that long, so the above is worth what it's worth!

--Radleigh

[Tim Simmons]

This is quite amusing and interesting. It is fetishism, commodity fetishism. goes beyond Marx and taken up by more modern thinkers. Rather like 4x4's {SUV} in largely Victorian London roads. I must admit I am weak and need to hammer a few more nails in my fetish doll . I would like an old one of those .

Emergency edit just in case anyone google "fetish doll" you had better google- Congo fetish doll.

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by CourseEight

I have to respectfully disagree with this argument as stated, though perhaps not the actual meaning. I personally think the most important point in defining "authenticity" is simply what purpose the creator of a given object had when he created it. If a village craftsman is creating a certain type of object for a member of his people, in the manner it has traditionally been made, to be used as his people have traditionally used it, I would not consider this to be a reproduction.

Obviously with certain types of objects, specifically weapons created strictly for combat, it is not possible to make a truly authentic item. However even today, weapons used for hunting, for parade/festival, for talismanic purposes, or for day-to-day utility can be made to serve the same purpose they did 100 years ago. I doubt very much the people using them consider them to be reproductions, just not as old. This is not to say that these are in any way as valuable as older examples, which for the most part it is assumed have seen more authentic usage. But if a weapon was specifically created for some gentleman during his visit to some village 150 years ago, it would have seen no more usage than one created today specifically for me. What does this say about the autenticity even of objects in old collections? I don't know...

I haven't been collecting that long, so the above is worth what it's worth!

--Radleigh

Hi Radleigh maybe read this

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4987


then you understand maybe what I ment to say about this .

And Andrew I do not now the laws in the USA but if the Forum is not an public thing because you need to be member I was thinking that it could be no problem .
And if we talk after the action bad over the sale and the item it can harm the seller too .
And is this than no problem ???


Ben

[spiral]

Originally Posted by kronckew

i think tim means it is madness AND we are all stinkin' rich

Top repley, wheres my share though?

Originally Posted by Dajak

What is going on that top piece s stay in collections
and there is only medium to les stuff become standard
and sell s for good (to high) price s .
Ben

Been happing for years, mroe & more each year in England as well, its drying up.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

YO! Preparing eBay ads for a few Moro and other pieces!
Stinkingly mad rich sounds good to me!

Good Luck!

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

I soon realized that most people really did not care if it was fake or not. They bought the artificially patinated sword. Sometimes cleaned off the carefully applied rust, sometimes didn't and just hung it on the wall.

As far as I can tell, there are only a very few people who do care (us) if these weapons are fake, composite or hybrids.

I have asked experts why they don't publish books about how to spot fakes. They have told me that the fake makers would then adjust their craft to make pieces that would be even harder to distinguish from the authentic pieces.

I am buying from dealers and collectors who I either have a relationship with -- have sterling reputations or who I can visit and hold the pieces before buying.

I have also found some real sleepers.
.

[spiral]

Sometimes Bill When you point out someone didnt have a clue what they were doing, im my expierience they take it as an insult to thier masculinity, knowledge etc. & wish to play shoot the messenger. I deal with loads of them with fake 1917 kukri, & those with delusians & fantasys about what theve found.etc..

re. sharing info. many "expert"s are still buying & dealing, fools buying junk often means there not bidding on the real stuff & they still get a top profit margin.

Sadley top dealers seem as honest as thier customers knowledge on any given item as far as I can see, but hell that not new in the arms trade.

as for the sleepers thats what its all about, in my book.Otherwise the funs gone.

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Emergency edit just in case anyone google "fetish doll" you had better google- Congo fetish doll.

strangly not to bad if you just click images with it, stuff from chad etc.

Spiral

[asomotif]

back to the original question from Ariel.

Please bear in mind these are auctions where also live floor bidders are involved. Things can go pretty wild at auctions.
You only need 2 persons with enough cash and a certain object in mind to have this happening. I have seen objects going away at more than 10 times the realistic value where even the auctioneer was openly amazed and shaking its head over the price that was bid.(and he was getting 25% of it both ways )

This does not mean we are all stinking rich (yet).

But being able to spent money on old iron objects without any real purpose than to fill the empty space in my oversized house.
Yes, that can be considered rich.

By the way, nice bamboo container Ben !

[Bill M]

Just one of the many things I respect about this Forum is that people here are willing to discuss validity and origin of pieces that may challenge -- in a very beneficial way -- time honored concepts.

Two particular men (and there are many others) on this Forum have my utmost respect as researchers and gentlemen.

I had always heard that Parang Naburs were the province of the Sea Dayaks, and then VVV (Micheal) put forth the idea that they are more in the arena of the Phillippines.

I also have a pair of the aluminum handled khuks that were supposed to have been made for the troops of the Maharajah of Jodhpur, and a man whom I respect as one of the greatest khukri experts active today has pretty much convinced me that this is untrue. The research he has done very much supports his assertion.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Dajak

And Andrew I do not now the laws in the USA but if the Forum is not an public thing because you need to be member I was thinking that it could be no problem .
And if we talk after the action bad over the sale and the item it can harm the seller too .
And is this than no problem ???


Ben

Hi Ben. Actually, this is a public forum, open for viewing by anyone with internet access. You need be a member only if you wish to post.

As for comments after an auction closes, believe me, that is a slippery slope we are trying to negotiate. Certainly interference with an auction is thus avoided, and we urge all members to be circumspect with regard to comments about a seller. Ultimately, everyone is responsible for their own comments, but our rules do address this:

Discussion of auctions should never include editorial comments about the seller. Please take those discussions to private e-mail.

Best,
Andrew