Stone club.

Tim Simmons · 9th August 2007, 07:19 PM

I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards.

Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit.
Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy

.

There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece.

Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me

.

Tim Simmons · 9th August 2007, 08:21 PM

Time flies.http://www.papua-insects.nl/history/...expedition.htm

Tim Simmons · 11th August 2007, 09:21 AM

I just had to add this pic of the Cerne Abbas giant. Well I have to blow my own trumpet.

Tim Simmons · 28th September 2008, 02:59 PM

This establishes the use of chert/flint and is a continuation of form although different in construction. As we know flint was exported so a variation in construction should be expected. The same form can also be seen on a New Caledoean club if you scroll through Oceania. The same bird head club,pick,war hammer? is widespread, seen in many Islands in these parts of the South Western Pacific.

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...a/1900.55.178/

Tim Simmons · 29th September 2008, 07:19 PM

More reference to the use of flint. Solomons

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1782830

Tim Simmons · 18th April 2009, 06:38 PM

I have just recevieved a book "The Traditional Pottery of Papua New Guinea"

Okay the book is not about weapons however it does cast a very bright light on trading.

We accept the trade of European steel weapons and lets call it the Red Sea trade of steel weapons to areas without the skill to produce quite the same weapon or if not so much the skill but quantity.

The trading could help explain why one cannot point to another club exactly the same. As mentioned before it may seem strange to us why a nodule of flint might be so valuable. This series of picture shows the scale of trading. They also show how flint would be traded to islands that naturally have no flint. As I am a bit dumb and slow I will do this by a series of replies to this post.

Tim Simmons · 18th April 2009, 06:49 PM

This picture shows pots ready to be traded by the Muto people, an annual trading festival and expidition known as "Hiri" Also a picture of the trading canoe. The pictures are turn of the 19/20th century.
These expeditions included the Torres Straits Islands, we know from previous post of the trade of flint from Australia from Cape York to the Torres Straits possibly other islands. I am sure they could put a few stone in this trading canoe even if it was just balast.

colin henshaw · 21st June 2012, 08:49 AM

Tim,

Here is an illustration from the book "History of Mankind" by F Ratzel. The stone club described as from Brazil.

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2015, 04:50 PM

This study kind of puts the Kibosh on the long held view that flint/chert was not available to much of the volcanic South Pacific.

file:///C:/Users/Tim/Downloads/Ward%20&%20Smith%201974%20Mankind%209%20[2].pdf

Copy and paste what is above might work, if not use the link below.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...STIGATION_1974

9th August 2007, 07:19 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards. Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit. Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy . There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece. Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me . Last edited by Tim Simmons; 9th August 2007 at 07:35 PM.

9th August 2007, 08:21 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	more stuff Time flies.http://www.papua-insects.nl/history/...expedition.htm Last edited by Tim Simmons; 9th August 2007 at 08:42 PM. Reason: slurred speach

11th August 2007, 09:21 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Just for fun I just had to add this pic of the Cerne Abbas giant. Well I have to blow my own trumpet. Attached Images

28th September 2008, 02:59 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	bubbling up again This establishes the use of chert/flint and is a continuation of form although different in construction. As we know flint was exported so a variation in construction should be expected. The same form can also be seen on a New Caledoean club if you scroll through Oceania. The same bird head club,pick,war hammer? is widespread, seen in many Islands in these parts of the South Western Pacific. http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...a/1900.55.178/

18th April 2009, 06:49 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	This picture shows pots ready to be traded by the Muto people, an annual trading festival and expidition known as "Hiri" Also a picture of the trading canoe. The pictures are turn of the 19/20th century. These expeditions included the Torres Straits Islands, we know from previous post of the trade of flint from Australia from Cape York to the Torres Straits possibly other islands. I am sure they could put a few stone in this trading canoe even if it was just balast. Attached Images

29th September 2008, 07:19 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	More reference to the use of flint. Solomons http://www.jstor.org/pss/1782830

18th April 2009, 06:38 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I have just recevieved a book "The Traditional Pottery of Papua New Guinea" Okay the book is not about weapons however it does cast a very bright light on trading. We accept the trade of European steel weapons and lets call it the Red Sea trade of steel weapons to areas without the skill to produce quite the same weapon or if not so much the skill but quantity. The trading could help explain why one cannot point to another club exactly the same. As mentioned before it may seem strange to us why a nodule of flint might be so valuable. This series of picture shows the scale of trading. They also show how flint would be traded to islands that naturally have no flint. As I am a bit dumb and slow I will do this by a series of replies to this post.

21st June 2012, 08:49 AM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Tim, Here is an illustration from the book "History of Mankind" by F Ratzel. The stone club described as from Brazil. Attached Images

14th December 2015, 04:50 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	This study kind of puts the Kibosh on the long held view that flint/chert was not available to much of the volcanic South Pacific. file:///C:/Users/Tim/Downloads/Ward%20&%20Smith%201974%20Mankind%209%20[2].pdf Copy and paste what is above might work, if not use the link below. https://www.researchgate.net/publica...STIGATION_1974