A Kampillan...But Moro???

VVV · 7th August 2007, 04:02 PM

Hi Kai,

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I agree; however, that also means that some of these "expat kampilan" don't have to be as old! (Some obviously are pretty old though...)

I agree on that

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Illanum seems to be a good guess - possibly more East than Borneo...

Sorry Kai but I don't think Illanun is a guess, but a fact, on Kampilan.
And I don't see why it has to be more East?
Resembling ones can be found in old European collections collected both in Mindanao as in Sabah (f.i. Eduard Sonne collection and Museo Militar in Madrid).

Michael

Bill · 7th August 2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Kai,

Sorry Kai but I don't think Illanun is a guess, but a fact, on Kampilan.
And I don't see why it has to be more East?
Resembling ones can be found in old European collections collected both in Mindanao as in Sabah (f.i. Eduard Sonne collection and Museo Militar in Madrid).

Michael

Hi Michael, I can't find too much about the Illanum. They seem to be mentioned whenever there is old accounts about pirates. I found the "Encyclopaedia of S.E.A. Ethnograpy" to be usefull in finding out about different groups. When it come to Illanum, they have very little; except to say they are closely related to the Maguindanao. As traders & pirates, I would think it is safer to say, they likely "adapted" the Kampilan from another group or that it's origin came from the Maguindanao & the Illanum may have spread it through the region.

Rick · 7th August 2007, 05:50 PM

From my understanding the Iranun/Ilanun inhabited Mindanao; at some point they were driven from their location due to volcanic activity and eventually were spread throughout the area as mercenaries and pirates. I have also read that they were among the most accomplished of smiths in the S. Philippines.

I believe this info can be found in Warren's The Sulu Zone .

RSWORD · 7th August 2007, 09:13 PM

Charles comment about the overall length being a good 6" less than typical Kampilan along with the fabric "wrist loop" makes me wonder if this piece would be a good size to utilize on board a ship.

VVV · 7th August 2007, 09:25 PM

Sorry Bill and Kai,

I was obviously a bit clumsy in my statement above.
I meant that it is a fact if, implicit, it belonged to an expat (= outside Mindanao).
On origin I have read that they came from Lake Lanao.
Doesn't that imply that they are closer to the Maranao?
There is a lot of information on the Illanun and their customs in old books describing ex-British North Borneo (= Sabah nowadays).

Michael

Battara · 8th August 2007, 07:05 PM

I was thinking (

) and there might be another possibility - could it be Bagobo - they were in proximity to the Moros and many Lumad tribes like this borrowed or were influenced by Moros. Bells like these were used by some of the Lumad tribes. I have seen tiger bells like these on some Bagobo pieces.

Battara · 8th August 2007, 07:06 PM

I was thinking (

) and there might be another possibility - could it be Bagobo - they were in proximity to the Moros and many Lumad tribes like this borrowed or were influenced by Moros. Bells like these were used by some of the Lumad tribes. I have seen tiger bells like these on some Bagobo pieces, and I think they tended to use slightly lighter pieces in weight.

ibeam · 11th August 2007, 05:02 PM

Great Kampilan Charlse,

Similar kampilans was brought up on this thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=570

I had a nice conversation with Zel about these. He was in Cotabato City a few months back doing research on the the ceremonial aspect of the Moro culture.

Hopefully he can share some of his research and insights on these.

Dajak · 14th August 2007, 10:20 PM

Tiger bells where used from thailand india Philipine to Borneo
It is no indication off country or people.

Ben

7th August 2007, 05:50 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	Diaspora From my understanding the Iranun/Ilanun inhabited Mindanao; at some point they were driven from their location due to volcanic activity and eventually were spread throughout the area as mercenaries and pirates. I have also read that they were among the most accomplished of smiths in the S. Philippines. I believe this info can be found in Warren's The Sulu Zone .

7th August 2007, 09:13 PM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Charles comment about the overall length being a good 6" less than typical Kampilan along with the fabric "wrist loop" makes me wonder if this piece would be a good size to utilize on board a ship.

7th August 2007, 09:25 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Sorry Bill and Kai, I was obviously a bit clumsy in my statement above. I meant that it is a fact if, implicit, it belonged to an expat (= outside Mindanao). On origin I have read that they came from Lake Lanao. Doesn't that imply that they are closer to the Maranao? There is a lot of information on the Illanun and their customs in old books describing ex-British North Borneo (= Sabah nowadays). Michael

8th August 2007, 07:05 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	I was thinking ( ) and there might be another possibility - could it be Bagobo - they were in proximity to the Moros and many Lumad tribes like this borrowed or were influenced by Moros. Bells like these were used by some of the Lumad tribes. I have seen tiger bells like these on some Bagobo pieces.

8th August 2007, 07:06 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	I was thinking ( ) and there might be another possibility - could it be Bagobo - they were in proximity to the Moros and many Lumad tribes like this borrowed or were influenced by Moros. Bells like these were used by some of the Lumad tribes. I have seen tiger bells like these on some Bagobo pieces, and I think they tended to use slightly lighter pieces in weight.

11th August 2007, 05:02 PM	#8
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Great Kampilan Charlse, Similar kampilans was brought up on this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=570 I had a nice conversation with Zel about these. He was in Cotabato City a few months back doing research on the the ceremonial aspect of the Moro culture. Hopefully he can share some of his research and insights on these.

14th August 2007, 10:20 PM	#9
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Tiger bells where used from thailand india Philipine to Borneo It is no indication off country or people. Ben