A Kampillan...But Moro???

VANDOO · 7th August 2007, 05:55 AM

ARTZI POSTED A SIMULAR KAMPILIAN A WHILE BACK SO YOU MIGHT LOOK FOR HIS POST OR CONTACT HIM. THE HAIR IS MOST LIKELY GOAT ,ORANGATAN IS NOT AS COURSE AS THAT APPEARS TO BE. I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY GOOD REFRENCES ON KAMPILIANS GIVING THEIR RANGE OR THE NUMBER OF TRIBES USING THEM BUT ALSO SUSPECT THIS IS NOT A PURE PHILIPPINE MORO KAMPILIAN. NICE KAMPILIAN AND A NICE HEAVY WATERED STEEL BLADE WHEREVER ITS FROM.

VVV · 7th August 2007, 09:53 AM

Great Kampilan!

I think this is another example of the older style, maybe pre-mid 19th C, of kampilan before the later, large "crocodile jaw" became more popular.
It seems as those were extinct already during the Spanish American war which probaby is the reason why they seldom are seen in US collections.
The talismanic (?) hairy "hang-on" are also sometimes found on those kampilan (example below).
Another even more rare style is the horse head hilt. Examples of those are found on the pictures in Cato p. 53 and van Z p. 93.
My understanding is that the kampilan is a tribal (Illanun tribe), not a geographical weapon. This nomadic sailing tribe is found in Mindanao as well as Sabah (Borneo), Sulawesi and Timor.
Among people who has emigrated from their original culture old style and habits lasts longer.
An example is my mother who left Denmark in the late 50's. A Danish friend of mine was excited after talking with her because even if she of course spoke perfect Danish it was like "watching an old movie". Her Danish hadn't changed since the 50's and she had no new expressions from the last 50 years as well as some expressions and words that nowadays no modern Dane would use.
But of course it's still Danish as your kampilan still is Illanun...

Michael

CharlesS · 7th August 2007, 10:37 AM

Thanks for the input guys.

Excelllent info Michael.

I also neglected to mention that the kampillan is about 6 inches shorter and considerably lighter than any other in my collection.

kai · 7th August 2007, 02:34 PM

Hello Michael,

Quote:

I think this is another example of the older style, maybe pre-mid 19th C, of kampilan before the later, large "crocodile jaw" became more popular.

It seems as those were extinct already during the Spanish American war which probaby is the reason why they seldom are seen in US collections.

I think I saw at least an intermediate example which apparently originated from Mindanao but I agree that this seems to be an old-style hilt which probably went out of fashion in Mindanao.

Quote:

Among people who has emigrated from their original culture old style and habits lasts longer.

I agree; however, that also means that some of these "expat kampilan" don't have to be as old! (Some obviously are pretty old though...)

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 7th August 2007, 04:02 PM

Hi Kai,

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

I agree; however, that also means that some of these "expat kampilan" don't have to be as old! (Some obviously are pretty old though...)

I agree on that

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Illanum seems to be a good guess - possibly more East than Borneo...

Sorry Kai but I don't think Illanun is a guess, but a fact, on Kampilan.
And I don't see why it has to be more East?
Resembling ones can be found in old European collections collected both in Mindanao as in Sabah (f.i. Eduard Sonne collection and Museo Militar in Madrid).

Michael

Bill · 7th August 2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Kai,

Sorry Kai but I don't think Illanun is a guess, but a fact, on Kampilan.
And I don't see why it has to be more East?
Resembling ones can be found in old European collections collected both in Mindanao as in Sabah (f.i. Eduard Sonne collection and Museo Militar in Madrid).

Michael

Hi Michael, I can't find too much about the Illanum. They seem to be mentioned whenever there is old accounts about pirates. I found the "Encyclopaedia of S.E.A. Ethnograpy" to be usefull in finding out about different groups. When it come to Illanum, they have very little; except to say they are closely related to the Maguindanao. As traders & pirates, I would think it is safer to say, they likely "adapted" the Kampilan from another group or that it's origin came from the Maguindanao & the Illanum may have spread it through the region.

Rick · 7th August 2007, 05:50 PM

From my understanding the Iranun/Ilanun inhabited Mindanao; at some point they were driven from their location due to volcanic activity and eventually were spread throughout the area as mercenaries and pirates. I have also read that they were among the most accomplished of smiths in the S. Philippines.

I believe this info can be found in Warren's The Sulu Zone .

RSWORD · 7th August 2007, 09:13 PM

Charles comment about the overall length being a good 6" less than typical Kampilan along with the fabric "wrist loop" makes me wonder if this piece would be a good size to utilize on board a ship.

VVV · 7th August 2007, 09:25 PM

Sorry Bill and Kai,

I was obviously a bit clumsy in my statement above.
I meant that it is a fact if, implicit, it belonged to an expat (= outside Mindanao).
On origin I have read that they came from Lake Lanao.
Doesn't that imply that they are closer to the Maranao?
There is a lot of information on the Illanun and their customs in old books describing ex-British North Borneo (= Sabah nowadays).

Michael

7th August 2007, 09:53 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Great Kampilan! I think this is another example of the older style, maybe pre-mid 19th C, of kampilan before the later, large "crocodile jaw" became more popular. It seems as those were extinct already during the Spanish American war which probaby is the reason why they seldom are seen in US collections. The talismanic (?) hairy "hang-on" are also sometimes found on those kampilan (example below). Another even more rare style is the horse head hilt. Examples of those are found on the pictures in Cato p. 53 and van Z p. 93. My understanding is that the kampilan is a tribal (Illanun tribe), not a geographical weapon. This nomadic sailing tribe is found in Mindanao as well as Sabah (Borneo), Sulawesi and Timor. Among people who has emigrated from their original culture old style and habits lasts longer. An example is my mother who left Denmark in the late 50's. A Danish friend of mine was excited after talking with her because even if she of course spoke perfect Danish it was like "watching an old movie". Her Danish hadn't changed since the 50's and she had no new expressions from the last 50 years as well as some expressions and words that nowadays no modern Dane would use. But of course it's still Danish as your kampilan still is Illanun... Michael Attached Images

7th August 2007, 05:50 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Diaspora From my understanding the Iranun/Ilanun inhabited Mindanao; at some point they were driven from their location due to volcanic activity and eventually were spread throughout the area as mercenaries and pirates. I have also read that they were among the most accomplished of smiths in the S. Philippines. I believe this info can be found in Warren's The Sulu Zone .

7th August 2007, 05:55 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ARTZI POSTED A SIMULAR KAMPILIAN A WHILE BACK SO YOU MIGHT LOOK FOR HIS POST OR CONTACT HIM. THE HAIR IS MOST LIKELY GOAT ,ORANGATAN IS NOT AS COURSE AS THAT APPEARS TO BE. I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY GOOD REFRENCES ON KAMPILIANS GIVING THEIR RANGE OR THE NUMBER OF TRIBES USING THEM BUT ALSO SUSPECT THIS IS NOT A PURE PHILIPPINE MORO KAMPILIAN. NICE KAMPILIAN AND A NICE HEAVY WATERED STEEL BLADE WHEREVER ITS FROM.

7th August 2007, 10:37 AM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Thanks for the input guys. Excelllent info Michael. I also neglected to mention that the kampillan is about 6 inches shorter and considerably lighter than any other in my collection.

7th August 2007, 09:13 PM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Charles comment about the overall length being a good 6" less than typical Kampilan along with the fabric "wrist loop" makes me wonder if this piece would be a good size to utilize on board a ship.

7th August 2007, 09:25 PM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Sorry Bill and Kai, I was obviously a bit clumsy in my statement above. I meant that it is a fact if, implicit, it belonged to an expat (= outside Mindanao). On origin I have read that they came from Lake Lanao. Doesn't that imply that they are closer to the Maranao? There is a lot of information on the Illanun and their customs in old books describing ex-British North Borneo (= Sabah nowadays). Michael