A bit unusual keris

rasdan · 9th March 2005, 02:47 AM

Thanks guys,

I think Conogre's remarks makes a lot of sense though we may dont wanna try it in the yard and get our neighbours selling their homes cheap and moving out fast.

(Quoting Radu) Just kidding Mike.

I searched for the book Bill mentioned in the library but its in the red tab section. Then looked for it in the internet shops...no wonder its in the red tab, the price is between AUD825 to more than USD 1000!! Thanks for info Bill. I'm sure that horn or ivory kerdas (bird shaped) hilt can be regarded as a token of bravery. Theres not much in the market and this surely reflect the standard of such article in the old days. Sometimes i got the feeling that the horn ones are harder to find. (Just a feeling).

Hi Blu, i'm a bit blurrred about the line that divides sulawesi bugis keris and strait/ riau bugis keris either on the nature of the blade or the fittings. Can u kindly shed some light on this? At the moment i just regard the penghulu sampir as sulawesi and the thinner sampir, narowing characteristics of the batang and flaring buntut as straits bugis. Your help is highly appreciated.

Regards,
Rasdan

Bill · 9th March 2005, 03:32 AM

Rasdan: http://www.elibron.com/english/searc...=25&search.y=7 , still not cheap, think this one may be up Ricks alley, also has a few other accounts of shipwrecked sailors.

rasdan · 9th March 2005, 03:55 AM

At last, one option. Thank you very much Bill.

BluErf · 9th March 2005, 12:37 PM

A few things made me think its Sulawesi. First, the pendoko is the long-stemmed form type, which is more typical of Sulawesi than Straits. Straits Bugis tend to use the 'short-stemmed', wide-rimmed pendoko. The kerdas hilt should also shed some clues, but from the angle of the pictures, I can't tell.

Secondly, the sheath has this 'awkwardness' (not in the bad sense, its probably just our sense of aesthetics in this part of the Malay/Straits Bugis world is different from the Sulawesi Bugis). Its difficult to describe, but Sulawesi-made sampir has this 'unpleasantness' that contrasts with the 'sweeter', better-shaped Straits Bugis type of sampir. Also, the batang has this bulge (swollen part) near the top. Straits Bugis batang tends to be more 'straight-up straight-down'. The buntut too -- oversized and odd-looking, adds to the awkward feel.

The blade is the hardest to tell the origins from because the blade outlasts the fittings and do travel around the region and gets dressed up to suit the owner's culture and tastes. But this blade has again this characteristic Sulawesi 'awkwardness' that I do think its a Sulawesi blade. And of course the sheer proportions and thickness of this blade is 101% Bugis garang-ness.

Great catch!!!

See one of my previous post -- see the 'awkward' resemblance.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=warrior+keris

rahman · 9th March 2005, 01:28 PM

Sorry, this is off-topic.

Blu - that 'x' on the ganja of your warrior keris -- could it the empu's signature. I read somewhere that sometimes, when an empu is satisfied with a piece of his work, he would leave behind his mark. Could this be one?

I have a riau keris that has a curious mark on its ganja, not an 'x'.

rasdan · 10th March 2005, 12:12 PM

Hi Blu,

Thanks for clearing up the point. However Frey in his book seperated sort of a Minang keris as Sumatra-Bugis keris. U know.. thick sampir, high pointed tip of sampir. Other than that he stated as Sulawesi kerisses. I'll try to scan the page to ease our reference.

DAHenkel · 10th March 2005, 02:39 PM

Rasdan, Blu is spot on with the Sulawesi provenance. Compare with this example below - note especially the lack of a "picitan" on the side of the sampir but also just the overall shape. You will never see a Straits Bugis keris like this.

DAHenkel · 10th March 2005, 02:41 PM

Rasdan, Blu is spot on with the Sulawesi provenance. Compare with this example below - note especially the lack of a "picitan" on the side of the sampir but also just the overall shape. You may see Sulawesi keris that look very close to a Straits Bugis keris but you will never see a Straits Bugis keris like this.

10th March 2005, 02:41 PM	#8
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Rasdan, Blu is spot on with the Sulawesi provenance. Compare with this example below - note especially the lack of a "picitan" on the side of the sampir but also just the overall shape. You may see Sulawesi keris that look very close to a Straits Bugis keris but you will never see a Straits Bugis keris like this. Attached Images

9th March 2005, 02:47 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Thanks guys, I think Conogre's remarks makes a lot of sense though we may dont wanna try it in the yard and get our neighbours selling their homes cheap and moving out fast. (Quoting Radu) Just kidding Mike. I searched for the book Bill mentioned in the library but its in the red tab section. Then looked for it in the internet shops...no wonder its in the red tab, the price is between AUD825 to more than USD 1000!! Thanks for info Bill. I'm sure that horn or ivory kerdas (bird shaped) hilt can be regarded as a token of bravery. Theres not much in the market and this surely reflect the standard of such article in the old days. Sometimes i got the feeling that the horn ones are harder to find. (Just a feeling). Hi Blu, i'm a bit blurrred about the line that divides sulawesi bugis keris and strait/ riau bugis keris either on the nature of the blade or the fittings. Can u kindly shed some light on this? At the moment i just regard the penghulu sampir as sulawesi and the thinner sampir, narowing characteristics of the batang and flaring buntut as straits bugis. Your help is highly appreciated. Regards, Rasdan

9th March 2005, 03:32 AM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Rasdan: http://www.elibron.com/english/searc...=25&search.y=7 , still not cheap, think this one may be up Ricks alley, also has a few other accounts of shipwrecked sailors.

9th March 2005, 03:55 AM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	At last, one option. Thank you very much Bill.

9th March 2005, 12:37 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	A few things made me think its Sulawesi. First, the pendoko is the long-stemmed form type, which is more typical of Sulawesi than Straits. Straits Bugis tend to use the 'short-stemmed', wide-rimmed pendoko. The kerdas hilt should also shed some clues, but from the angle of the pictures, I can't tell. Secondly, the sheath has this 'awkwardness' (not in the bad sense, its probably just our sense of aesthetics in this part of the Malay/Straits Bugis world is different from the Sulawesi Bugis). Its difficult to describe, but Sulawesi-made sampir has this 'unpleasantness' that contrasts with the 'sweeter', better-shaped Straits Bugis type of sampir. Also, the batang has this bulge (swollen part) near the top. Straits Bugis batang tends to be more 'straight-up straight-down'. The buntut too -- oversized and odd-looking, adds to the awkward feel. The blade is the hardest to tell the origins from because the blade outlasts the fittings and do travel around the region and gets dressed up to suit the owner's culture and tastes. But this blade has again this characteristic Sulawesi 'awkwardness' that I do think its a Sulawesi blade. And of course the sheer proportions and thickness of this blade is 101% Bugis garang-ness. Great catch!!! See one of my previous post -- see the 'awkward' resemblance. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=warrior+keris

9th March 2005, 01:28 PM	#5
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	Sorry, this is off-topic. Blu - that 'x' on the ganja of your warrior keris -- could it the empu's signature. I read somewhere that sometimes, when an empu is satisfied with a piece of his work, he would leave behind his mark. Could this be one? I have a riau keris that has a curious mark on its ganja, not an 'x'.

10th March 2005, 12:12 PM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Hi Blu, Thanks for clearing up the point. However Frey in his book seperated sort of a Minang keris as Sumatra-Bugis keris. U know.. thick sampir, high pointed tip of sampir. Other than that he stated as Sulawesi kerisses. I'll try to scan the page to ease our reference.

10th March 2005, 02:39 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Rasdan, Blu is spot on with the Sulawesi provenance. Compare with this example below - note especially the lack of a "picitan" on the side of the sampir but also just the overall shape. You will never see a Straits Bugis keris like this.