Origins of Shepherds' Knives and Karakulaks

erlikhan · 3rd August 2007, 04:34 PM

Yes you guys, I recommend you all once again, please don't provoke each other ,you must stay in the lines of edged weapons world.

Ariel, I think that "Teke" is not the one in Turkmenistan, but much closer, southern Anatolia, Antalya and its environment. That region was named "Teke sancagi" (Teke province) in Ottoman period.

ariel · 4th August 2007, 02:50 AM

Teke is one of the biggest and certainly the most influential tribes in Turkmenistan. Tekes were a part of the Kyzylbashi confederation and that's how their name entered Turkish administrative divisions.
Just as a quick reminder
http://www.chrono-tm.org/?0257042827...00000011000000
They are famous for their horses, the Akhal Teke breed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke

erlikhan · 4th August 2007, 07:21 AM

That's correct.And most probably he was from Teke tribe although it doesnt prove a direct relation between yataghans and central asia. A lot of geographical names in Ottoman period were Turkmen tribal ones, named after tribe which had dominated there during the migrations between
1071-1200s. "Tekelu" shows his place of birth or his tribal identity to seperate him from other Ahmeds in a time when there was no systematical last name tradition. Note:South Anatolia Tekes were mainly living as nomads- 'Yoruk's 1530.

ariel · 4th August 2007, 12:21 PM

Man, if only we could prove anything in this business

Of course, my comment about his Central Asian roots and the origins of Yataghan was meant as a joke

erlikhan · 9th August 2007, 10:48 PM

Good.Then, it is my duty to supply you another potential clue in your efforts to track the origins of yataghans for all of us. Teke means "goat".

gp · 30th June 2021, 07:29 PM

most interesting topic! thank you very much. Some more reading from the Balkans on the topic and yataghans ( unfortunately not all in English or not all in partial English) and a few available in legal downloads as well

ariel · 30th June 2021, 10:12 PM

Another potential source of “ karakulaks” is Crimean Khanate, either directly ( they are close) or thru the Ottomans. There are archeological findings in and around Crimea of yataghan-like blades of 12-14 centuries. At the end of 15 century ( more precisely 1475) there was an invasion of Crimea by the Ottomans to put their chosen khan on the throne.

Literally, within the next 40 years we get absolute copies of these blades on the “Royal” yataghans with the handles very similar to the Crimean examples. Let’s not forget that Crimean Khans were direct descendants of Chingiz Khan and as such were venerated by the Ottomans to the point that a Crimean Khan was supposed to take the Ottoman throne in case of no direct Ottoman heir. The last Khan, Shahin Girey was sent by the Ottoman to Rhodes, accused for trying to become a Sultan and executed.

Then , from the Royal examples yataghans diffused down first to the janissaries and then all over, but this time with eared pommels. Why eared ? I have a very fantasy- sounding theory with a lot of conjectures, but let me think about it some more.

4th August 2007, 07:21 AM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	That's correct.And most probably he was from Teke tribe although it doesnt prove a direct relation between yataghans and central asia. A lot of geographical names in Ottoman period were Turkmen tribal ones, named after tribe which had dominated there during the migrations between 1071-1200s. "Tekelu" shows his place of birth or his tribal identity to seperate him from other Ahmeds in a time when there was no systematical last name tradition. Note:South Anatolia Tekes were mainly living as nomads- 'Yoruk's 1530. Last edited by erlikhan; 4th August 2007 at 08:18 AM.

30th June 2021, 07:29 PM	#6
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 883	most interesting topic! thank you very much. Some more reading from the Balkans on the topic and yataghans ( unfortunately not all in English or not all in partial English) and a few available in legal downloads as well Attached Images Last edited by gp; 30th June 2021 at 08:33 PM.

3rd August 2007, 04:34 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Yes you guys, I recommend you all once again, please don't provoke each other ,you must stay in the lines of edged weapons world. Ariel, I think that "Teke" is not the one in Turkmenistan, but much closer, southern Anatolia, Antalya and its environment. That region was named "Teke sancagi" (Teke province) in Ottoman period.

4th August 2007, 02:50 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Teke is one of the biggest and certainly the most influential tribes in Turkmenistan. Tekes were a part of the Kyzylbashi confederation and that's how their name entered Turkish administrative divisions. Just as a quick reminder http://www.chrono-tm.org/?0257042827...00000011000000 They are famous for their horses, the Akhal Teke breed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke

4th August 2007, 12:21 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Man, if only we could prove anything in this business Of course, my comment about his Central Asian roots and the origins of Yataghan was meant as a joke

9th August 2007, 10:48 PM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Good.Then, it is my duty to supply you another potential clue in your efforts to track the origins of yataghans for all of us. Teke means "goat".

30th June 2021, 10:12 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Another potential source of “ karakulaks” is Crimean Khanate, either directly ( they are close) or thru the Ottomans. There are archeological findings in and around Crimea of yataghan-like blades of 12-14 centuries. At the end of 15 century ( more precisely 1475) there was an invasion of Crimea by the Ottomans to put their chosen khan on the throne. Literally, within the next 40 years we get absolute copies of these blades on the “Royal” yataghans with the handles very similar to the Crimean examples. Let’s not forget that Crimean Khans were direct descendants of Chingiz Khan and as such were venerated by the Ottomans to the point that a Crimean Khan was supposed to take the Ottoman throne in case of no direct Ottoman heir. The last Khan, Shahin Girey was sent by the Ottoman to Rhodes, accused for trying to become a Sultan and executed. Then , from the Royal examples yataghans diffused down first to the janissaries and then all over, but this time with eared pommels. Why eared ? I have a very fantasy- sounding theory with a lot of conjectures, but let me think about it some more.