Ivory hilt dagger with "Tears" and a "Smiley?"

Andrew · 2nd August 2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand

Found and article about the magnetic field in wootz... based on a 16th Persian dagger purchased from Leo Figiel...

http://home.clara.net/andywrobertson...02_dagger.html

rand

That article contains some terms I am unfamiliar with: "Yesodic entities", "the Darks", "Briahtic structures".

kronckew · 2nd August 2007, 03:28 PM

Have a look at the related web page: HERE

looks a bit piscatorial to me. someone forgot to take their meds and hasn't properly grounded their tinfoil hat. or they're trying to apply some serious traction to our legs.....

i like the kard in the illustration which is NOT the one in the article, just 'similar'

i have a related question: how do you spell 'spoof' ?

Mare Rosu · 3rd August 2007, 08:15 PM

Man, go away for a day or two and looks what happens to this thread!

Starting at the top and working down.

Rand; Kronckew; Jens, Thank you for the bird (be careful now) information, so we now all agree it is a Peacock.

Rand, just where in the world? did you come up with that story on Figiel's blade? some strange information.
only to be toped by Kronckew post on the even more stranger information!

Andrew at least you got your information about the meanings of those words, so did I, I just hope you understand it better than I do, which is not at all

"At some point, far in the past, cross-Domain contact between Yesod and Briah was established. This may be a natural phenomenon or may be (hard as it is to believe) the result of an intelligent manipulation of natural laws by the Darks."
Hard to believe?? He sure got that right, man, that is some heavy stuff going on here.
I think Rivkin needs to post, and tell us just what is going on with all of this
stuff

I thank (I think) Rand and Kronckew for the information, I just need to lay down for awhile.
Gene

rand · 3rd August 2007, 08:27 PM

Hey Gene,

Came across that Far Field Figiel Dagger page on the net quite by accident when researching square kufic calligraphy and comapring 16th century work to 18 century work, just happened to be following this thread by coincidence and posted a link to it.

There does remain the possiblitiy that some blades have a magnetic field from the type of forging process. We could use an expert in this field here....

The dark stuff is very far fetched...

Magnetically charged yours with multidirectional opposed fields,

"What is the name given to describe the phenomenon in which there are dimensional changes associated with the magnetization of a material such as Fe, Ni, Co, etc.
Magnetostriction.:"

rand

"Luke, come to the dark side" lol (Star Wars)

David · 7th August 2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

That article contains some terms I am unfamiliar with: "Yesodic entities", "the Darks", "Briahtic structures".

Andrew, these are Qabalistic terms, though i don't quite grasp how or why he is using these in this article as i have merely skimmed it for the terms. Briah refers to one of the 4 Qabalistic worlds, the world of creation. Yesod is one of the 10 (or 11

) spheres on the Tree of Life, the 9th sphere, one level up from our material world of Malkuth.

Mare Rosu · 7th August 2007, 10:08 PM

Rand, the information on the different types of Ivory is much appreciated.

Jens would you please tell me what I am looking at/for, in your last picture? Which one is which?

David much needed information, now I am a little (very little) less confused.

Folks I am going to take the dagger to an handle material expert tomorrow.
I will let you know what I find out from them. These folks sell all types of handle material to the knife trade including ivory. There business is located only a few miles away. Stay tuned!
Gene

rand · 7th August 2007, 10:17 PM

Hey Gene,

I lean towards thinking the grip scales are Indian elephant ivory because they are staying white...

rand

PS...nice daggers posted there Jens

spiral · 8th August 2007, 12:15 AM

Rand, i have read much knowledge & wisdom in your posts but I must say the colour of ivory is based on enviroment & food during the elephants life, Africa is a big place, with lots of variations, large grain, small grain, many colours & tones from each area, jungle or dry region, food a plenty or famine. The same is true on a lesser scale in India & Burma

The regional variation are more accurate than the continental as used to be shown by the prices realised for the old Liverpool & Antwerp ivory auctions.

But far beyond that each tusk was from a living breathing animal with its own life history that far outways the usual antique dealers generalitys one sees trotted out when it comes to fineness of grain, colour & more importantly texture & resiliance , which of course is what the carvers were looking for.

Spiral

rand · 8th August 2007, 02:30 AM

Hey Spiral,

I yield to a more informed opinion and would like to hear more about the color of ivory as it relates directly as part of a puzzle wher you add the sum of all the parts to determine what the whole is. My knowledge of ivory is more general from a collecting and study perspective of arms n' armor and not from a study of ivory. This is an area I would certainly like to know more. Maybe a seperate posting as not to deviate from the course of this thread.

The use ivory is seen particularly from the late 16th century on in Islamic countries. Also on a similar topic would be bone, different bones were also used and they had a couple hundred grades of it from what I have read.

Stag horn was more popular in the 16th century and seems to be one the the earlier forms material used for grip scales.

Am sure trade routes were a cause and effect and as Empires changed habds so did the trade routes and the tax base gleened from that.

Thanks again Spiral,

rand

3rd August 2007, 08:15 PM	#3
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	SAY WHAT? Man, go away for a day or two and looks what happens to this thread! Starting at the top and working down. Rand; Kronckew; Jens, Thank you for the bird (be careful now) information, so we now all agree it is a Peacock. Rand, just where in the world? did you come up with that story on Figiel's blade? some strange information. only to be toped by Kronckew post on the even more stranger information! Andrew at least you got your information about the meanings of those words, so did I, I just hope you understand it better than I do, which is not at all "At some point, far in the past, cross-Domain contact between Yesod and Briah was established. This may be a natural phenomenon or may be (hard as it is to believe) the result of an intelligent manipulation of natural laws by the Darks." Hard to believe?? He sure got that right, man, that is some heavy stuff going on here. I think Rivkin needs to post, and tell us just what is going on with all of this stuff I thank (I think) Rand and Kronckew for the information, I just need to lay down for awhile. Gene

3rd August 2007, 08:27 PM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Far Field Hey Gene, Came across that Far Field Figiel Dagger page on the net quite by accident when researching square kufic calligraphy and comapring 16th century work to 18 century work, just happened to be following this thread by coincidence and posted a link to it. There does remain the possiblitiy that some blades have a magnetic field from the type of forging process. We could use an expert in this field here.... The dark stuff is very far fetched... Magnetically charged yours with multidirectional opposed fields, "What is the name given to describe the phenomenon in which there are dimensional changes associated with the magnetization of a material such as Fe, Ni, Co, etc. Magnetostriction.:" rand "Luke, come to the dark side" lol (Star Wars) Last edited by rand; 4th August 2007 at 09:32 AM.

7th August 2007, 10:17 PM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	grip scales ivory Hey Gene, I lean towards thinking the grip scales are Indian elephant ivory because they are staying white... rand PS...nice daggers posted there Jens

8th August 2007, 02:30 AM	#9
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Bowing to a more informed opinion Hey Spiral, I yield to a more informed opinion and would like to hear more about the color of ivory as it relates directly as part of a puzzle wher you add the sum of all the parts to determine what the whole is. My knowledge of ivory is more general from a collecting and study perspective of arms n' armor and not from a study of ivory. This is an area I would certainly like to know more. Maybe a seperate posting as not to deviate from the course of this thread. The use ivory is seen particularly from the late 16th century on in Islamic countries. Also on a similar topic would be bone, different bones were also used and they had a couple hundred grades of it from what I have read. Stag horn was more popular in the 16th century and seems to be one the the earlier forms material used for grip scales. Am sure trade routes were a cause and effect and as Empires changed habds so did the trade routes and the tax base gleened from that. Thanks again Spiral, rand

2nd August 2007, 03:28 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	Have a look at the related web page: HERE looks a bit piscatorial to me. someone forgot to take their meds and hasn't properly grounded their tinfoil hat. or they're trying to apply some serious traction to our legs..... i like the kard in the illustration which is NOT the one in the article, just 'similar' i have a related question: how do you spell 'spoof' ?

7th August 2007, 10:08 PM	#6
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Rand, the information on the different types of Ivory is much appreciated. Jens would you please tell me what I am looking at/for, in your last picture? Which one is which? David much needed information, now I am a little (very little) less confused. Folks I am going to take the dagger to an handle material expert tomorrow. I will let you know what I find out from them. These folks sell all types of handle material to the knife trade including ivory. There business is located only a few miles away. Stay tuned! Gene

8th August 2007, 12:15 AM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Rand, i have read much knowledge & wisdom in your posts but I must say the colour of ivory is based on enviroment & food during the elephants life, Africa is a big place, with lots of variations, large grain, small grain, many colours & tones from each area, jungle or dry region, food a plenty or famine. The same is true on a lesser scale in India & Burma The regional variation are more accurate than the continental as used to be shown by the prices realised for the old Liverpool & Antwerp ivory auctions. But far beyond that each tusk was from a living breathing animal with its own life history that far outways the usual antique dealers generalitys one sees trotted out when it comes to fineness of grain, colour & more importantly texture & resiliance , which of course is what the carvers were looking for. Spiral