Dangers of Producing replica ethnographic weapons and art

[Jim McDougall]

good observation Ariel.

[Bill]

I think that a number of 'hybrid' ivory hilted moro kris are showing up. I'd guess a least 4 have been posted on this site fairly receintly. I have no trouble with some one restoring missing parts but think it's a real shame to destroy a legit antique. If a hilt was in poor condition, I can see making a simular hilt & would keep the original with the sword. I hope that who ever is making these hybrid's have saved the old hilts but it appears they are now permently seperated from the swords. IMO, these hybrid's lessen the value of the original.

[David]

Bill has a point here. Not just ivory pommels, but silver and other fancy hilts are showing up on weapons that were middle-class in their working days and would never have been graced with such valuable hilts. Obviously the sole purpose in this is to make them more maketable and c ommand higher prices. Most of these seem obvious to me, but i am sure that many a nice hilt has been married to a blade which then passes muster are an original ensemble. I certainly see no prblem with restoring a kris to it's former glory, and sometimes this requires a new hilt or pommel. But it should be one that is suited to and equals the blade, not surpasses it.

[Dajak]

Hi Bill this is happening with a lot of weapons also with some mandau in Kuching Borneo they have an old blade put an Handle on it and carved a new scabbard and try to sell it for real old .

The danger from this if people see this stuf and buys them this somethimes bad stuf can become standard .

Ben

[Jim McDougall]

right Ben.

[kai]

Hello Bill and other forumites,

I think that a number of 'hybrid' ivory hilted moro kris are showing up. I'd guess a least 4 have been posted on this site fairly receintly. I have no trouble with some one restoring missing parts but think it's a real shame to destroy a legit antique.

Creating antique-looking composites (solely forged for market reasons) has been going on for a long time both in collector communities as well as in the respective countries of origin. Utilizing genuine, old spare parts or patination of newly crafted pieces are obvious strategies - both of which destroy a piece of historic evidence as has been noted already. (Of course, the same is true for removing parts from an existing ensemble be it a hilt from a kozuka blade, a relief from a temple, or a relic from an archeological site... )

If a hilt was in poor condition, I can see making a simular hilt & would keep the original with the sword. I hope that who ever is making these hybrid's have saved the old hilts but it appears they are now permently seperated from the swords.

Sure, not only will the connection be lost (the main goal of forgery) but also most damaged parts will get discarded. OTOH, fittings have often been exchanged at the whims of the owner already in the original cultures which makes it hard to draw a clear line. Short of scientific analyses, one will often only be able to guess from the age of patina, bindings and other materials used wether the change was still done in the "good, ol' times" rather than more recently.

IMO, these hybrid's lessen the value of the original.

We should also keep in mind that in most cases new materials are being artificially aged and that, for example, newly sourced ivory has most certainly been obtained in an unsustainable as well as generally unethical way.

Regards,
Kai

[Dajak]

Hi don t forget they use old wood let it outside for a few years and no one can tell that it is not 100 years old if they use traditional tools .
I did see this a lot in Indonesie .

Ben