Chinese dagger for comment

Lew · 28th July 2007, 06:02 AM

Here is a nice example from my collection the hilt is made from local mountain sheep horn.

Lew

josh stout · 30th July 2007, 04:41 PM

That one is just lovely. Where would you say it is from?
Josh

Lew · 30th July 2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

That one is just lovely. Where would you say it is from?
Josh

It's from Bhutan.

Lew

yuanzhumin · 31st July 2007, 10:35 AM

Hello
Henk, your dagger is from China, because it is written on it, unless "yunnan" is not anymore a province of China ;-)

In fact, there are 4 caracters on you scabbard
yun hu sa nan (in this order)

The first and the last have to be read together as the size of their font show they are linked. In fact, they are smaller and from left to right, they mean simply "Yunnan", the province of China. At least, you know for sure the origin of this dagger.

The second and the third caracter, hum... It's something else.
"Hu" means family, house, clan
"sa" means to let go, to abandon, to escape

So there is many ways to understand it, but I see two very different. What is strange is that these two caracters are read from right to left to have the meaning I see. In the other way, from left to right, they remain a mystery.

First explanation, it's the name of a clan : the clan Sa.

Second explanation, there is a very rare Chinese proverb in four caracters that say : Use extreme means so that there is no way to escape (sa chueh hu wang)

The Chinese always reducing the four caracters sentences to two, the proverb in this way would become 'sa hu', exactly what is written on the scabbard. The precise translation in our case, adapted to the knife :
(This knife or the holder of this knife) use extreme means without anyway (for the prey or the opponent) to escape.

On the blade are carved exactly the two same caracters, linking the blade to the scabbard and emphasing on the fact that this blade leaves no way to escape for the one that is targeted.

Sorry, it seems a little esoteric, but I can't tell you more. At least, Henk, you know that your dagger is from Yunnan, China.

Nicolas

Henk · 31st July 2007, 02:58 PM

Hello Nicolas,

Thank you so much for your translation. Indeed now I know the dagger is from Yunnan, China.

Two ways to understand the writing on the scabbard and dagger.
First one, it could be a dagger from the family or clan Sa, Yunnan or made in Yunnan.
Second one, the dagger is made in Yunnan and has both on blade and scabbard the saying, this blade leaves no way to escape for the one that is targeted.

Maybe it is a little bit esoteric, but I like it. It certainly gives another dimension to this dagger for me personally.

Thanks again, Nicolas

josh stout · 31st July 2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

It's from Bhutan.

Lew

Thanks, the handle certainly has the Bhutanese shape, but as has been shown, some Tibetan daggers seem to have the same shape. What are the materials?

There does not seem to be anything about the blade itself that would be definitive either way that I can see. The elegant undecorated scabbard looks like what I have read about Bhatanese scabbards, but this example is the first I have seen of this particular type.
Thanks,
Josh

viracocha · 2nd January 2011, 11:46 AM

Hi i the first knife must be an Achang knife which is also known as Husa knife Husa and Lasa areas of Longchuan County province of China . This sort of knife is well-forged and elaborately made, and very sharp, tensile, durable Sheaths made of wood, leather and silver i got one of those in silver with rusty blade but still sharp

VANDOO · 3rd January 2011, 02:36 AM

IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THIS FORM OF DAGGER OR SWORD IS PRESENT IN BUTHAN, TIBET AND IN PARTS OF CHINA THAT ARE NEAR TIBET. I SAW QUITE A FEW NICE EXAMPLES IN CHENGDU CHINA YEARS AGO AND SOMETHING SIMULAR SAID TO BE A MONGOLIAN DAGGER/KNIFE. THESE DAGGERS ARE STILL BEING MADE BUT MANY WERE MADE BEFORE CHINA WAS OPEN TO TOURISTS AS WELL SO THEY WERE LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN USED ENTIRELY BY THE LOCALS. CHINA HAS NOT BEEN OPEN TO OUTSIDERS AND TOURISTS FOR LONG MY FIRST TRIP INTO RED CHINA WAS IN 1982 AND ALL THAT WAS ALLOWED AT THAT TIME WAS A DAY TRIP BY BUS FROM MACAU. THERE WAS NO PROVISION FOR BUYING ANYTHING EXCEPT AT ONE FRIEND-SHIP STORE THEY WERE STILL BUILDING. WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE CHINESE MONEY OR BUY ANYTHING ANYWHERE ELSE USING HONG KONG OR US DOLLARS. NO ONE WAS ALLOWED ANYWHERE NEAR TIBET AT THAT TIME.
SIMULAR ITEMS THRUOUT THE AREA IS NOT A GREAT SUPRIZE AS THERE ARE MANY MINORITY TRIBES WHO WERE NOMADIC AND TRAVELED ABOUT WITH THEIR FLOCKS. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW TRIBES IN CHINA WHO FAVOR THE DHA AS WELL.
THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS ON IT AS I HAVE NO WRITTEN REFRENCE OR STUDY DONE ON THE SUBJECT.

28th July 2007, 06:02 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is a nice example from my collection the hilt is made from local mountain sheep horn. Lew Attached Images

31st July 2007, 10:35 AM	#4
yuanzhumin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ex-Taipei, Taiwan, now in Shanghai, China Posts: 180	It's a Chinese dagger, from Yunnan Hello Henk, your dagger is from China, because it is written on it, unless "yunnan" is not anymore a province of China ;-) In fact, there are 4 caracters on you scabbard yun hu sa nan (in this order) The first and the last have to be read together as the size of their font show they are linked. In fact, they are smaller and from left to right, they mean simply "Yunnan", the province of China. At least, you know for sure the origin of this dagger. The second and the third caracter, hum... It's something else. "Hu" means family, house, clan "sa" means to let go, to abandon, to escape So there is many ways to understand it, but I see two very different. What is strange is that these two caracters are read from right to left to have the meaning I see. In the other way, from left to right, they remain a mystery. First explanation, it's the name of a clan : the clan Sa. Second explanation, there is a very rare Chinese proverb in four caracters that say : Use extreme means so that there is no way to escape (sa chueh hu wang) The Chinese always reducing the four caracters sentences to two, the proverb in this way would become 'sa hu', exactly what is written on the scabbard. The precise translation in our case, adapted to the knife : (This knife or the holder of this knife) use extreme means without anyway (for the prey or the opponent) to escape. On the blade are carved exactly the two same caracters, linking the blade to the scabbard and emphasing on the fact that this blade leaves no way to escape for the one that is targeted. Sorry, it seems a little esoteric, but I can't tell you more. At least, Henk, you know that your dagger is from Yunnan, China. Nicolas

2nd January 2011, 11:46 AM	#7
viracocha Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1	Husa Knife Hi i the first knife must be an Achang knife which is also known as Husa knife Husa and Lasa areas of Longchuan County province of China . This sort of knife is well-forged and elaborately made, and very sharp, tensile, durable Sheaths made of wood, leather and silver i got one of those in silver with rusty blade but still sharp Attached Images

30th July 2007, 04:41 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	That one is just lovely. Where would you say it is from? Josh

31st July 2007, 02:58 PM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hello Nicolas, Thank you so much for your translation. Indeed now I know the dagger is from Yunnan, China. Two ways to understand the writing on the scabbard and dagger. First one, it could be a dagger from the family or clan Sa, Yunnan or made in Yunnan. Second one, the dagger is made in Yunnan and has both on blade and scabbard the saying, this blade leaves no way to escape for the one that is targeted. Maybe it is a little bit esoteric, but I like it. It certainly gives another dimension to this dagger for me personally. Thanks again, Nicolas

3rd January 2011, 02:36 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THIS FORM OF DAGGER OR SWORD IS PRESENT IN BUTHAN, TIBET AND IN PARTS OF CHINA THAT ARE NEAR TIBET. I SAW QUITE A FEW NICE EXAMPLES IN CHENGDU CHINA YEARS AGO AND SOMETHING SIMULAR SAID TO BE A MONGOLIAN DAGGER/KNIFE. THESE DAGGERS ARE STILL BEING MADE BUT MANY WERE MADE BEFORE CHINA WAS OPEN TO TOURISTS AS WELL SO THEY WERE LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN USED ENTIRELY BY THE LOCALS. CHINA HAS NOT BEEN OPEN TO OUTSIDERS AND TOURISTS FOR LONG MY FIRST TRIP INTO RED CHINA WAS IN 1982 AND ALL THAT WAS ALLOWED AT THAT TIME WAS A DAY TRIP BY BUS FROM MACAU. THERE WAS NO PROVISION FOR BUYING ANYTHING EXCEPT AT ONE FRIEND-SHIP STORE THEY WERE STILL BUILDING. WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE CHINESE MONEY OR BUY ANYTHING ANYWHERE ELSE USING HONG KONG OR US DOLLARS. NO ONE WAS ALLOWED ANYWHERE NEAR TIBET AT THAT TIME. SIMULAR ITEMS THRUOUT THE AREA IS NOT A GREAT SUPRIZE AS THERE ARE MANY MINORITY TRIBES WHO WERE NOMADIC AND TRAVELED ABOUT WITH THEIR FLOCKS. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW TRIBES IN CHINA WHO FAVOR THE DHA AS WELL. THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS AND OBSERVATIONS ON IT AS I HAVE NO WRITTEN REFRENCE OR STUDY DONE ON THE SUBJECT.