Chinese dagger for comment

[josh stout]

Well that last dagger has several elements that identify it as Bhutanese. The pommel is absolutely typical, and the blade looks like the hairpin folding has been highlighted with narrow shallow grooves which are also associated with Bhutanese styles. A classical Tibetan dagger would have the trefoil pommel, and very distinct dark and light lines of hairpin folding without grooves. That said, there are many mixtures of the two styles, and within the region of Tibetan influence there are many pommel styles beyond the trefoil. In "Warriors of the Himalayas" there are Tibetan swords with grooves cut in the blade, though they still look a bit fatter than most Bhutanese styles. Also in Phuntsho Rapten's "Patag-the symbol of heroes" there are several different styles of blades, ranging from those with no grooves to wide grooves to narrow grooves. In addition, Rapten mentions a trade with Tibet in Bhutanese pommels (price=one mule). Undoubtedly blades were also traded back and forth.

So while there are many areas of uncertainty, the last dagger has purely Bhutanese elements in a cohesive unit that is easily recognizable as Bhutanese. I would say the same about many Tibetan daggers.

About the first two daggers posted: I tried to convey the sense that while the fittings look like more energy was put into them than the blade, I would not at all assume they were meant for tourists or were never used. The first one shows quite a mixture of styles with a vaguely Bhutanese looking pommel, Chinese characters, and Tibetan brass work. The fullers have decorative lines at the ends similar to the "Unusual Tibetan saber" I recently posted. That saber also shows several influences. The brass work on the second dagger is better than the first, with a pommel that is even further evolved from a classic Bhutanese look. But once again, it looks like less time was spent on the blade than the fittings. This does not mean it could not have been used, just that use was secondary to show.

In the last dagger from Bhutan, is the tang peened at the pommel? It is something I have wondered about, and it does not show up in the usual pictures.
Josh

[josh stout]

Here is an example of a "Bhutanese" dagger with a more debatable origin. It shows the Bhutanese style handle, but in a form more similar to ones such as the first two posted. I wonder if it is not a Tibetan copy of a Bhutanese dagger.

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/swords/?subpage=1414

Josh

[Tim Simmons]

I have had a few of these when they were not in vogue a decade back or so. I like the one Bill post. Even old ones are not very old if you research the British encroachment into Butuan and Tibet. These fancy scabbard ones to me are very suspect and I would have nothing to do with them. I am kicking myself for parting with what I had. At the time nobody was that interested. That's life .

[Lew]

Here is a nice example from my collection the hilt is made from local mountain sheep horn.

Lew

[josh stout]

That one is just lovely. Where would you say it is from?
Josh

[Lew]

Originally Posted by josh stout

That one is just lovely. Where would you say it is from?
Josh

It's from Bhutan.


Lew

[yuanzhumin]

Hello
Henk, your dagger is from China, because it is written on it, unless "yunnan" is not anymore a province of China ;-)

In fact, there are 4 caracters on you scabbard
yun hu sa nan (in this order)

The first and the last have to be read together as the size of their font show they are linked. In fact, they are smaller and from left to right, they mean simply "Yunnan", the province of China. At least, you know for sure the origin of this dagger.

The second and the third caracter, hum... It's something else.
"Hu" means family, house, clan
"sa" means to let go, to abandon, to escape

So there is many ways to understand it, but I see two very different. What is strange is that these two caracters are read from right to left to have the meaning I see. In the other way, from left to right, they remain a mystery.

First explanation, it's the name of a clan : the clan Sa.

Second explanation, there is a very rare Chinese proverb in four caracters that say : Use extreme means so that there is no way to escape (sa chueh hu wang)

The Chinese always reducing the four caracters sentences to two, the proverb in this way would become 'sa hu', exactly what is written on the scabbard. The precise translation in our case, adapted to the knife :
(This knife or the holder of this knife) use extreme means without anyway (for the prey or the opponent) to escape.

On the blade are carved exactly the two same caracters, linking the blade to the scabbard and emphasing on the fact that this blade leaves no way to escape for the one that is targeted.

Sorry, it seems a little esoteric, but I can't tell you more. At least, Henk, you know that your dagger is from Yunnan, China.

Nicolas

[josh stout]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

It's from Bhutan.


Lew

Thanks, the handle certainly has the Bhutanese shape, but as has been shown, some Tibetan daggers seem to have the same shape. What are the materials?

There does not seem to be anything about the blade itself that would be definitive either way that I can see. The elegant undecorated scabbard looks like what I have read about Bhatanese scabbards, but this example is the first I have seen of this particular type.
Thanks,
Josh