keris and spirit

PenangsangII · 11th July 2007, 05:09 AM

Pak Ganja and other forumites,

The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober.

But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.

ganjawulung · 11th July 2007, 06:11 AM

This is another interpretation, related to Ario Penangsang. According to Mr Bambang Harsrinuksmo, the accessory of Javanese bride, laces of jasmine around the bride's keris (see the picture), also related to Ario Penangsang legend.

In the folklore, according to Mr Bambang, Danang Sutawijaya from Pajang succeded to stab the side of Ario Penangsang with his spear Kiai Plered. And the intestines of Ario was hang out of the side. Ario was still upright on his horse, Gagak Rimang. Even, Ario could push Sutawijaya. In the critical situation, Ario wanted to stab Sutawijaya who no longer showed any movement. but unfortunately, the intestines of Ario was cut by his own keris. (See Setan Kober, Kyai -- Ensiklopedi Keris by Bambang Harsrinuksmo)

Sutawijaya, according to Bambang Harsrinuksmo, was very impressed with the heroism of Ario Penangsang. And Sutawijaya realised, he was "saved" by the good fortune. He then ordered all his descents to respect the heroism of Ario Penangsang. The laces of jasmine in every Javanese bride's keris, is only a symbol for such honor to Penangsang...

Ganjawulung

PenangsangII · 11th July 2007, 09:47 AM

Nice pics

No truer or more genuine compliment / mark of respect / admiration but from your enemy!!!

BTW, all the Tanah Jawa spirits combined still could not save Arya Penangsang from God's plan, and also from himself.....

HanaChu69 · 12th July 2007, 08:15 AM

Good day everyone,

Pak Alan – I hope you don’t mind me asking. Can I know what you did to the 15 troublesome pieces of keris and tombak? Did you allocate a special place for them? Did you neutralize them? I sure hope that they bring you good luck and not trouble.

Penangsang – Believe in fate. No matter how invincible you are. You will surely die one day.

Best regards,
Hana

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2007, 09:52 AM

Hana, I did absolutely nothing other than to accept what I was given, and proceed to look after these pieces as I would any others. Some required no work except cleaning and oiling. Others required varying amounts of work. All were put into good condition and simply added to a particular drawer where I keep all wesi aji that is given to me.

No offerings, no neutralisation, no sleeping with them under my pillow, no consultations with wise men.

Nothing except giving them the care and respect they deserved.

They may have been troublesome to some other people, they have been no trouble at all to me.

Pusaka · 12th July 2007, 10:35 PM

Let’s say it is possible to imbue a blade with an energy field, call it spirit if you like but what type of material would best suit this purpose?

As an analogy I would like to consider the basic bar magnet. There are many types of magnets, natural loadstone, common steel magnetized (the first manufactured magnets), nickel steel and super strong rare earth magnets. The nature of the magnetic field in all of these substances is the same however some materials when energized (magnetized) will retain that magnetism for a longer period of time.
We conclude that it is possible to magnetize several materials but some make better magnets then others.

In terms of magnets what type of material makes the strongest magnet?
As stated previously rare earth magnets are the strongest type of magnets available. One variety of magnet which is extremely strong contains three main ingredients, nickel, ferrite and a rare earth element. The smallest quantity of rare earth element when added to a nickel iron compound will boost its magnetic properties.

Meteorites often contain iron, nickel and rare earth elements. A kris forged from meteorite should be more magnetic then a steel blade.
I was once told that a keris made from meteorite was better able to hold a spirit, I read earlier in this thread that a keris made from meteorite was able to hold a spirit because it is yin.
I will however say that a keris made from meteorite is better because it contains rare earth elements which makes it a suitable object to be energized and retain that original energy for a longer period of time.

All magnets become weak over time if they are not remagnetized, all keris will likewise become weak if their energy if not maintained in a correct manner.

It is not mystical, its Scientific

David · 13th July 2007, 02:33 PM

Pusaka, nice to hear from you again.

My opinion is this - spirit is not a piece of iron and i don't think magnetic attraction will make any difference...unless you believe it wll. Maybe i do.

When enbuing an object with spirit, the best material to use is the one the best makes some sort of logical sense in the hardwiring of your brain. Spiritual and magickal practices are very personal ones and while we are all influenced by larger cultural concerns what we each believe can sometimes be very specific (and somewhat different from our fellows). Personally i like the concept of the magnet as a metaphor for my mind and i always regularly reinforce the magnetic fields of all my keris. But i don't think it is "science" per se. I would never suggest that anyone else should do this, it is just part of my personal practice and something which works well with the software already input into my mind. But someone else may have an old hatpin from their favorite weird great aunt that has deep magickal significance to them that they might feel is the perfect material to embue and hold spirit. Maybe they want to melt it down and put it in their keris.

11th July 2007, 06:11 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Respecting Ario Penangsang This is another interpretation, related to Ario Penangsang. According to Mr Bambang Harsrinuksmo, the accessory of Javanese bride, laces of jasmine around the bride's keris (see the picture), also related to Ario Penangsang legend. In the folklore, according to Mr Bambang, Danang Sutawijaya from Pajang succeded to stab the side of Ario Penangsang with his spear Kiai Plered. And the intestines of Ario was hang out of the side. Ario was still upright on his horse, Gagak Rimang. Even, Ario could push Sutawijaya. In the critical situation, Ario wanted to stab Sutawijaya who no longer showed any movement. but unfortunately, the intestines of Ario was cut by his own keris. (See Setan Kober, Kyai -- Ensiklopedi Keris by Bambang Harsrinuksmo) Sutawijaya, according to Bambang Harsrinuksmo, was very impressed with the heroism of Ario Penangsang. And Sutawijaya realised, he was "saved" by the good fortune. He then ordered all his descents to respect the heroism of Ario Penangsang. The laces of jasmine in every Javanese bride's keris, is only a symbol for such honor to Penangsang... Ganjawulung Attached Images

11th July 2007, 05:09 AM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Pak Ganja and other forumites, The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober. But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.

11th July 2007, 09:47 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Nice pics No truer or more genuine compliment / mark of respect / admiration but from your enemy!!! BTW, all the Tanah Jawa spirits combined still could not save Arya Penangsang from God's plan, and also from himself.....

12th July 2007, 08:15 AM	#4
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Good day everyone, Pak Alan – I hope you don’t mind me asking. Can I know what you did to the 15 troublesome pieces of keris and tombak? Did you allocate a special place for them? Did you neutralize them? I sure hope that they bring you good luck and not trouble. Penangsang – Believe in fate. No matter how invincible you are. You will surely die one day. Best regards, Hana

12th July 2007, 09:52 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Hana, I did absolutely nothing other than to accept what I was given, and proceed to look after these pieces as I would any others. Some required no work except cleaning and oiling. Others required varying amounts of work. All were put into good condition and simply added to a particular drawer where I keep all wesi aji that is given to me. No offerings, no neutralisation, no sleeping with them under my pillow, no consultations with wise men. Nothing except giving them the care and respect they deserved. They may have been troublesome to some other people, they have been no trouble at all to me.

12th July 2007, 10:35 PM	#6
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Let’s say it is possible to imbue a blade with an energy field, call it spirit if you like but what type of material would best suit this purpose? As an analogy I would like to consider the basic bar magnet. There are many types of magnets, natural loadstone, common steel magnetized (the first manufactured magnets), nickel steel and super strong rare earth magnets. The nature of the magnetic field in all of these substances is the same however some materials when energized (magnetized) will retain that magnetism for a longer period of time. We conclude that it is possible to magnetize several materials but some make better magnets then others. In terms of magnets what type of material makes the strongest magnet? As stated previously rare earth magnets are the strongest type of magnets available. One variety of magnet which is extremely strong contains three main ingredients, nickel, ferrite and a rare earth element. The smallest quantity of rare earth element when added to a nickel iron compound will boost its magnetic properties. Meteorites often contain iron, nickel and rare earth elements. A kris forged from meteorite should be more magnetic then a steel blade. I was once told that a keris made from meteorite was better able to hold a spirit, I read earlier in this thread that a keris made from meteorite was able to hold a spirit because it is yin. I will however say that a keris made from meteorite is better because it contains rare earth elements which makes it a suitable object to be energized and retain that original energy for a longer period of time. All magnets become weak over time if they are not remagnetized, all keris will likewise become weak if their energy if not maintained in a correct manner. It is not mystical, its Scientific

13th July 2007, 02:33 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	Pusaka, nice to hear from you again. My opinion is this - spirit is not a piece of iron and i don't think magnetic attraction will make any difference...unless you believe it wll. Maybe i do. When enbuing an object with spirit, the best material to use is the one the best makes some sort of logical sense in the hardwiring of your brain. Spiritual and magickal practices are very personal ones and while we are all influenced by larger cultural concerns what we each believe can sometimes be very specific (and somewhat different from our fellows). Personally i like the concept of the magnet as a metaphor for my mind and i always regularly reinforce the magnetic fields of all my keris. But i don't think it is "science" per se. I would never suggest that anyone else should do this, it is just part of my personal practice and something which works well with the software already input into my mind. But someone else may have an old hatpin from their favorite weird great aunt that has deep magickal significance to them that they might feel is the perfect material to embue and hold spirit. Maybe they want to melt it down and put it in their keris.