Explaining forgeries

Mark · 5th July 2007, 04:20 PM

I think forgers come in different flavors.

The low-end ones probably won't change what they are doing, since they are all about volume and high profit margin. To them, the swords are just commodities, and you could almost say that they are not really even trying to "fake" anything, but are just making cheap swords, period. Improving their fakes would make them more expensive to make, and they don't want to (or don't have the sophistication to) try and sell them on a higher-end market.

Then you have the more sophisticated forgers, who really are trying to make fakes to pass off as the real thing. They are still not very sophisticated because they are using unskilled labor, and still doing a volume business. These guys may make the more obvious changes, though in most cases the workmanship will still be so bad that you can spot the fakes.

The highest-end forgers are those who use talented workers, and try and copy the piece down to the smallest details. This would include sophisticated artificial aging, for example, going beyond painting on some cheesy artificial patina. These guys may even take genuine swords and alter them to make the look older, or to appear as a rarer or more valuable weapon. These are the guys that you really don't want to help.

The bottom line for me is that you could expect all of these people to be on the look-out for hints on improving their products, so I think that it is a bad idea to be very specific on the open forum. Sure, the low-end guys won't do much with the info, but the high-end guys, who can do the most damage, will.

Bill M · 6th July 2007, 02:30 AM

I have talked with several high end dealers about ways to distinguish fakes and while I learned a few things, mostly they did not want the knowledge broadcast because fakers would change and it would be harder to spot the fake products.

Nowadays almost everyone has a computer, especially the fakers.

There are people, dealers, collectors who have paid their dues and handled so many authentic pieces that they have developed a "feel" for their arenas. Most people I know need to handle an object to determine authenticity.

I do not buy expensive pieces anymore unless they come from a dealer established in a certain area, and most of them offer a lifetime refund if the object is proven fake by a reputable source.

5th July 2007, 04:20 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I think forgers come in different flavors. The low-end ones probably won't change what they are doing, since they are all about volume and high profit margin. To them, the swords are just commodities, and you could almost say that they are not really even trying to "fake" anything, but are just making cheap swords, period. Improving their fakes would make them more expensive to make, and they don't want to (or don't have the sophistication to) try and sell them on a higher-end market. Then you have the more sophisticated forgers, who really are trying to make fakes to pass off as the real thing. They are still not very sophisticated because they are using unskilled labor, and still doing a volume business. These guys may make the more obvious changes, though in most cases the workmanship will still be so bad that you can spot the fakes. The highest-end forgers are those who use talented workers, and try and copy the piece down to the smallest details. This would include sophisticated artificial aging, for example, going beyond painting on some cheesy artificial patina. These guys may even take genuine swords and alter them to make the look older, or to appear as a rarer or more valuable weapon. These are the guys that you really don't want to help. The bottom line for me is that you could expect all of these people to be on the look-out for hints on improving their products, so I think that it is a bad idea to be very specific on the open forum. Sure, the low-end guys won't do much with the info, but the high-end guys, who can do the most damage, will.

6th July 2007, 02:30 AM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I have talked with several high end dealers about ways to distinguish fakes and while I learned a few things, mostly they did not want the knowledge broadcast because fakers would change and it would be harder to spot the fake products. Nowadays almost everyone has a computer, especially the fakers. There are people, dealers, collectors who have paid their dues and handled so many authentic pieces that they have developed a "feel" for their arenas. Most people I know need to handle an object to determine authenticity. I do not buy expensive pieces anymore unless they come from a dealer established in a certain area, and most of them offer a lifetime refund if the object is proven fake by a reputable source.