The earliest sabers

[TVV]

Originally Posted by HorseNomad

Hello Teodor,

OK, let's see-- well, the first on the left is about right for 8 or 9 century, but not exclusively Bulgar. Second one can't say because of the flash. 3rd one crossguard and blade both look Bulgar 10 century give or take 100 yrs, 4th one is definitely later, probably 13 century and kind of an international form from the Caspian all the way to the Balkans. The last sword is definitely Golden Horde so 13-14 century.
The thing with these ancient sabres is condition. I personally avoid the really corroded or incomplete ones. If there's enough material intact to show details like the form of the guard and the cross-x of the blade, you can pretty well date them but that's kind of rare. And if you find ones that still have the pommel, that's just plain luck.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

I appreciate your comments. According to an archaeologist, who published a catalogue of finds from the VII-Xth centuries in the territory of nowadays Bulgaria, the first three are palashes and the 2nd and 3rd he claims belong to a group associated with Bulgars and Khazars. The 4th one, he claims is Magyar, as it is similar to finds associated with the Magyars. I have to admit, to me it looks similar to the well known Charlemagne sabre, which is considered Magyar. For the last sword, I completely agree that it looks like a Golden Horde one.
I will try to post pictures of more finds from nowadays Bulgaria over the weekend. I am also looking forward to seeing as many other examples in this thread, because as I wrote, these early medieval sabres are my favorites, even if I know too little about them.
Teodor

Dr. Lee's example strikes me as amazingly well preserved.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Lee for posting the 'Siberian sabre' which is exactly the one I was referring to!!!! What a great sword ... there were some excellent discussions back in those early days (seems so long ago!) and we've come a long way.

While there has ever been various levels of discussion and research on the development of the sabre, the theories remain of course inconclusive and some interesting ideas have been presented over the years.

I agree with Ham, I would like to see more on early sabres, such as those posted by Teodor!

I have always been under the impression that the curved sabre developed progressively from the standard straight swords as the dynamics of the slashing cut from horseback was better served by such the curving edge.It would be interesting to know of such 'proto-sabres' actually existed, possibly the idea began in the fashion of blade sharpening of straight swords on the earliest . It seems generally held that the sabre probably evolved with the movement of nomadic tribes westward from China, possibly in Turkistan.

It would be interesting to have this better explained and know more on the probable course of development of the curved sabre, and to see some examples (such as this excellent blade posted by Oriental Arms).

All best regards,
Jim

[Oriental-Arms]

Another one from the same lot:



Shorter blade 28 inches long 7 mm thick, quite heavy, with a clear thrusting spear shaped tip of diamond cross section and raised yelmen 6 inches long:



Tang with two holes and a short blade "colar" (Tunkou):

[HorseNomad]

Hello Teodor,

It's hard to make a distinction between geographical locations and peoples in the Migration period, I think in terms of peoples for that reason.
The Magyars, Khazars, Bulgars and a bunch of other people were mixed up together but I guess it's easiest to say Magyar for the 4th sword in the pic since the Hungarian museums have a lot of similar swords.

The straight sword posted-- that is a nice old one from east of the Urals for sure. I remember it was online a few years ago, been way over cleaned. Whoever found it should have left it alone. Anybody know where it is now?

The last sword on the pics is a real nice one too, does it have the hilt parts? If so it would be great to see them. Will try to post one of mine that is complete.

Tim

[HorseNomad]

Here's a sword from the same family with the hilt intact. It has a narrow groove running down the blade, you can see it up at the forte. Got lucky on this one, some original surface still on it 88 cm long, blade is 75 cm.

Tim

[TVV]

Lovely sword Tim,

I have blades from the 19th century in worse shape . Here are some more sabres from a catalogue of archaeological finds in what is now Bulgaria. The first are considered Bulgar and earlier, the second group are conidered Magyar and a little later, towards the Xth century. One of them I believe appears on the picture I posted:






Regards,
Teodor