keris and spirit

David · 13th June 2007, 01:16 PM

Yes, i have also bought a number of keris from Adni and he does, indeed, use a most pleasant keris oil on them. I have also bought the oil from him.

Penangsang, you seem to have more intimate dtails of Hana's situation so i will wait for Hana to add more information. Personally i both smoke and oil my keris and have always considered both acts to be a form of "feeding" the keris and it's spirit. I am not as aware of Hana's personal beliefs as you seem to be so i can not persume to suggest any alternative feeding methods.

HanaChu69 · 13th June 2007, 05:54 PM

Hello everyone

It’s welcoming to hear views on this topic. I have to correct some on my gender as I’m a lady keris collector. It’s fine for I’m use to it already…no big deal.

Usman – I’m sure you will master the English Language some day. As for the dvd, I will email you to double confirm on my understanding. I have to agree that the appearance of the “khadam” is an indication that there was a problem before and the second was like a reminder. I will work on the “unfinished business” and hopefully solve them soon. Can I know where did you get your resources? How do you address the “khadam” in your native tongue? Btw, thanks for the compliment on my country and I hope you will visit us again some day.

David – It’s fine and I’m working on the “unfinished business” thus working out on further actions. Btw, I don’t smoke the kerises but diligently oil them as preventive measure against rust. As for Penangsang intimate detail on my situation, I would say that we both share similar ancestral profile – his on paternal and mine on maternal. As such, he understands my principles and beliefs as to why I omitted certain rituals.

Pak Alan – With your many years of experience in Javanese culture, is possible for you to elaborate on “he must first understand himself and then his answer will present itself.How to go into our own soul?”.

Penangsang – Welcome as we are both new to this forum. Btw, how do you derive the appearance as a sign that he needs feeding? It’s good to get the right teacher to guide but it seem that they kept a lot to themselves without wanting to share. Furthermore, there might even be conflict of interest on my part so I rather stick to my method.

Truthfully,
HanaChu69

PenangsangII · 14th June 2007, 03:34 AM

Greetings,

Hana, the possibility that the spirit is hungry is also "unfinished business" that literally means you have not fed him accordingly and periodically. I think you also understand when somebody come into contact with his/her dead ancestors thru dreams, it's sign that the ancestors are "hungry", hence special prayers (tahlil) is conducted by the immediate family members. I believe that treating the "the hungry khadam" also works in this principle though the way / ritual is different.

However, since you have indicated that you know about your "unfinished business" after some soul searching, my "hungry khadam" analogy is no longer relevant

.

Regarding the silent teacher/s, perhaps you should learn how to approach them without making it so obvious that you need to ask something. These teachers are analyzing you before teaching you anything as heavy as spiritual being subject for obvious reasons....

Mr Sepokal....if you are reading this, pls help.

HanaChu69 · 15th June 2007, 08:37 AM

Greetings everyone,

I have decided to confine my findings via email and PM. Spiritual world is indeed very sacred and I do respect some who prefer being anonymous.

Usman – Do revert on my email. Thanks once again for the clarification on the mission and “unfinished business”.

Pak Alan – Thank you very much for the sound advice via PM. I really appreciate it.

Penangsang – I understand your concern for I’m aware that dealing with “pusako” is less risky than the unknown keris spirit. I’m at a disposition having two contrasting “pusako” with different customs and rituals. Btw, Mr. Sepokal has offered his help in establishing my paternal “pusako” but not keris related. I am in contact with him and will approach him should I require further help. For the meanwhile, I will take my time in communicating with all my kerises.

Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please….

Sincerely,
HanaChu69

P.S – Apologized to Mans, Usman and the others who chatted halfway and get cut off. There’s seemed to be some problem with my laptop & network connection...

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th June 2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please….

Sincerely,
HanaChu69
[/I]

Hana,

if I am not mistaken...em...after reading old threads I have a conclusion that a lot of waroeng kopi attendances have very deep understanding of keris.... more than expected before. It means that "tayuh" or "nayuh" is nothing new amongst our colleagues.

I don't have any ability to "nayuh" and, perhaps, just have a little bit information about "tayuh". Based on that little information of "tayuh", it is wise to learn scientific and "pakem"ic (tangguh, sepuh, pamor, and so on) aspects of keris before learning about "tayuh" and doing "nayuh".

Why? I dont know exactly the answer. Perhaps, you must ask to our colleagues either here or by personal message.

Usman

Raden Usman Djogja · 19th June 2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Hana,

I don't have any ability to "nayuh" and, perhaps, just have a little bit information about "tayuh". Based on that little information of "tayuh", it is wise to learn scientific and "pakem"ic (tangguh, sepuh, pamor, and so on) aspects of keris before learning about "tayuh" and doing "nayuh".

Usman

Hana,

to continue about "nayuh" and "tayuh" (Hana, I do really wanna know these words in english, so please translate it)

one of the greatest challenges in "nayuh" is to differentiate between the imagination and the "real message". to strengthen the ability for differentiating it, imho, it is important to have wide knowledge of keris. Pakem Keris is learnt by mind. "Nayuh" is done by heart/soul. Let mind as a good guardian of heart/soul. Without strong and capable guardian, heart/soul can be trapped nowhere but "fantasy". it is very dangerous, actually.

may I explore by an analogy:

firstly, if I have a thick book: written in the cover "ensiklopedi keris by bambang harsrinuksmo", there are pictures: keris 13 curves outside its sheath. lets imagine all of metioned above just like "tangguh/period, pamor, ricikan/detail, dhapur/model[?]" in a certain keris. these information will be used as a compass.

secondly, I would like to know inside that book. If it is real book, it is very easy, just open it then read. But lets imagine the book is a keris. To know inside, one of the ways, is by doing "nayuh". when in nayuh, I meet with robert langdon and sophie neveu, for the sake of my goodness, I must stop it immediately. Why? instead of getting "real message", I am creating "a fantasy based on dan brown's novel: da vinci code". if in the cover written "ensiklopedi keris", the book (the keris) should explain about keris (its spiritual aspects) inside.

thridly, even in "nayuh" I get images or explanations about keris, I must still need to test and retest it. sometimes, well-planned/well-organized fantasy happens.

em...thats all for now, I must take a bath and go to workplace.

Usman

David · 19th June 2007, 04:08 PM

Usman, you continue to show keen insights on this subject and i find your Da Vinci Code analogy to be quite good.

I do not believe you will find any single word in English that properly discribes nayuh or tayuh so it is probably best to work more on finding a good definition for these words and then continue to these words in the context of our conversation.

I do understand why some may be hesitant to discuss these subjects here on the forum, however i would still like to encourage it. The subject will be taken seriously here and you should have no fear of ridicule. This is also not the type of subject that can be held up to scientific measurement and i will insist that all peoples beliefs be treated with respect and understanding.

13th June 2007, 05:54 PM	#2
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Hello everyone It’s welcoming to hear views on this topic. I have to correct some on my gender as I’m a lady keris collector. It’s fine for I’m use to it already…no big deal. Usman – I’m sure you will master the English Language some day. As for the dvd, I will email you to double confirm on my understanding. I have to agree that the appearance of the “khadam” is an indication that there was a problem before and the second was like a reminder. I will work on the “unfinished business” and hopefully solve them soon. Can I know where did you get your resources? How do you address the “khadam” in your native tongue? Btw, thanks for the compliment on my country and I hope you will visit us again some day. David – It’s fine and I’m working on the “unfinished business” thus working out on further actions. Btw, I don’t smoke the kerises but diligently oil them as preventive measure against rust. As for Penangsang intimate detail on my situation, I would say that we both share similar ancestral profile – his on paternal and mine on maternal. As such, he understands my principles and beliefs as to why I omitted certain rituals. Pak Alan – With your many years of experience in Javanese culture, is possible for you to elaborate on “he must first understand himself and then his answer will present itself.How to go into our own soul?”. Penangsang – Welcome as we are both new to this forum. Btw, how do you derive the appearance as a sign that he needs feeding? It’s good to get the right teacher to guide but it seem that they kept a lot to themselves without wanting to share. Furthermore, there might even be conflict of interest on my part so I rather stick to my method. Truthfully, HanaChu69 Last edited by HanaChu69; 14th June 2007 at 03:28 AM.

15th June 2007, 08:37 AM	#4
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, I have decided to confine my findings via email and PM. Spiritual world is indeed very sacred and I do respect some who prefer being anonymous. Usman – Do revert on my email. Thanks once again for the clarification on the mission and “unfinished business”. Pak Alan – Thank you very much for the sound advice via PM. I really appreciate it. Penangsang – I understand your concern for I’m aware that dealing with “pusako” is less risky than the unknown keris spirit. I’m at a disposition having two contrasting “pusako” with different customs and rituals. Btw, Mr. Sepokal has offered his help in establishing my paternal “pusako” but not keris related. I am in contact with him and will approach him should I require further help. For the meanwhile, I will take my time in communicating with all my kerises. Oh..can we proceed with topics on “tayuh’ and “nayuh’ please…. Sincerely, HanaChu69 P.S – Apologized to Mans, Usman and the others who chatted halfway and get cut off. There’s seemed to be some problem with my laptop & network connection...

13th June 2007, 01:16 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Yes, i have also bought a number of keris from Adni and he does, indeed, use a most pleasant keris oil on them. I have also bought the oil from him. Penangsang, you seem to have more intimate dtails of Hana's situation so i will wait for Hana to add more information. Personally i both smoke and oil my keris and have always considered both acts to be a form of "feeding" the keris and it's spirit. I am not as aware of Hana's personal beliefs as you seem to be so i can not persume to suggest any alternative feeding methods.

14th June 2007, 03:34 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Greetings, Hana, the possibility that the spirit is hungry is also "unfinished business" that literally means you have not fed him accordingly and periodically. I think you also understand when somebody come into contact with his/her dead ancestors thru dreams, it's sign that the ancestors are "hungry", hence special prayers (tahlil) is conducted by the immediate family members. I believe that treating the "the hungry khadam" also works in this principle though the way / ritual is different. However, since you have indicated that you know about your "unfinished business" after some soul searching, my "hungry khadam" analogy is no longer relevant . Regarding the silent teacher/s, perhaps you should learn how to approach them without making it so obvious that you need to ask something. These teachers are analyzing you before teaching you anything as heavy as spiritual being subject for obvious reasons.... Mr Sepokal....if you are reading this, pls help.

19th June 2007, 04:08 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Usman, you continue to show keen insights on this subject and i find your Da Vinci Code analogy to be quite good. I do not believe you will find any single word in English that properly discribes nayuh or tayuh so it is probably best to work more on finding a good definition for these words and then continue to these words in the context of our conversation. I do understand why some may be hesitant to discuss these subjects here on the forum, however i would still like to encourage it. The subject will be taken seriously here and you should have no fear of ridicule. This is also not the type of subject that can be held up to scientific measurement and i will insist that all peoples beliefs be treated with respect and understanding.