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Old 5th June 2007, 03:21 PM   #1
Lew
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Jim

I emailed Ian Knight and showed him the link. He thinks it's an older form of Zulu club circa 1879 or earlier.

Lew.
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Old 5th June 2007, 04:26 PM   #2
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I have faceted knobkerrie that trade 10 rand and two bags of christmas candy for...got it from a 12 year Zulu cow herd this past Christmas.

Sorry for bringing up values, but it is part of the story of the acquisition
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Old 5th June 2007, 06:03 PM   #3
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Well I am sure this one is East African, south Sudan? Uganda? and towards the big lakes.
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Old 5th June 2007, 09:37 PM   #4
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Thanks very much guys! I've been trying to 'broaden my horizons' and really dont know much on these so I really appreciate the notes. I hope the discussion continues and I admire the knowledge you all have on these...never stop learnin' !!!

Charles and Lew thanks for addressing the questions specifically.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 6th June 2007, 07:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES
Jim

I emailed Ian Knight and showed him the link. He thinks it's an older form of Zulu club circa 1879 or earlier.

Lew.
With all due respect to Mr. Knight, I don't believe it possible to make such an estimation from the picture. The picture quality is not that great and the club just doesn't "look old". The pattern may be old, but I just don't think the club is....ain't young either. 1950-1970's maybe...that's my WAG.
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Old 6th June 2007, 03:31 PM   #6
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AH YES THE FAMOUS DEBEERS FACET CUT MUST HAVE BELONGED TO A LADY AS THEY SEEM TO END UP WITH ALL THE DIAMONDS.
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Old 6th June 2007, 04:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Double D
With all due respect to Mr. Knight, I don't believe it possible to make such an estimation from the picture. The picture quality is not that great and the club just doesn't "look old". The pattern may be old, but I just don't think the club is....ain't young either. 1950-1970's maybe...that's my WAG.
DD

This is where I must disagree with you. It is very hard to determine age when it comes to patina on these clubs. Here is a club that came with providence dating back to the 1920s it belonged to an American geologist who was involved with the copper mining in the Congo. When I first received it it looked terrible but after a bit of polish it came out nice. The patina does not look much different than the club with the faceted head. Ian was basing his opinion on the the over all quality of the facet work on the head he said that more recent versions lack the quality work found on this club. The club may not be from 1879 and without providence it is hard to prove but sometimes you just have to go with estimates and opinions of other more experienced persons in that particular field of study. Still whatever the age it's a nice example of this type of club.

Lew
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Old 6th June 2007, 06:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES
DD
It is very hard to determine age when it comes to patina on these clubs.
Lew you are very right. That's what I am saying. Add to it the quality of the pictures and dating becomes even more difficult. I just don't see how you can date this from the pictures.

Quote:
Ian was basing his opinion on the the over all quality of the facet work on the head he said that more recent versions lack the quality work found on this club.
Mr. Knight may be right saying this is an 1879 pattern. But Mr. Knight is standing out in left field with me giving it any date. He can't date that club any more than I can. I have seen similar clubs dated from the 1950's in as good a quality. That doesn't make this club a club from the 1950's either.


Now this isn't meant to be negative directed at the club. We would not hesitate to add this club to our collection.
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Old 6th June 2007, 07:41 PM   #9
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DD

Can you post some pics of your faceted head clubs for comparison?



Lew
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Old 7th June 2007, 05:18 AM   #10
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The one facted head we have is the second on the left in the above picture.
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Old 7th June 2007, 09:03 PM   #11
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Hello DD,

Could you post close-ups?
(I can see that the rootball was left with a kind of rough finish but can't make out any facets. Not that I doubt you - just would be nice to be able to compare them... )

BTW, the far left piece doesn't seem to be a functional club - is this a purely ceremonial club or what's the story with this type?

Regards,
Kai
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