Pics: Snake-like Curves

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Nice, I've seen Pengging examples from Hidayat's collection, (in pictures only) . On a personal level, although these might look intimidating, I find these blades and spear points to be ineffective as weapons. Perhaps mostly used as ceremonial?

Dear Shahrial,
What I learned from Javanese tangguh, is mainly "style that differ from other period". So it was a matter of identity. That is the most important. From the style of weapon, and of course the specific style of sheath, one can differ where did the pusaka's holder from... (IMO, and no "direct source")

To learn tangguh, is not a study of just reading. But also seeing, looking, watching carefully thousands of blades with different styles. After "jam terbang" (Oops, flying hours? Help my English, please...) advanced, then you may be able to know -- or at least to predict -- from with style.

Pengging, very special in luks. Thin like Majapahit style, but good iron, good "garap" (working), although only for short period... (I will add more, soon)

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial,
What I learned from Javanese tangguh, is mainly "style that differ from other period". So it was a matter of identity. That is the most important. From the style of weapon, and of course the specific style of sheath, one can differ where did the pusaka's holder from... (IMO, and no "direct source")

Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

To learn tangguh, is not a study of just reading. But also seeing, looking, watching carefully thousands of blades with different styles. After "jam terbang" (Oops, flying hours? Help my English, please...) advanced, then you may be able to know -- or at least to predict -- from with style.

I do not learn tangguh or claim to learn. I'm just pointing out the stylistic differences compared with pieces from other period. Those that I've seen had been identified by those whom are familiar with tangguh. So I'm not guessing, in that sense.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Pengging, very special in luks. Thin like Majapahit style, but good iron, good "garap" (working), although only for short period... (I will add more, soon)...

Hi Ganja, I agree Pengging does have special luk form... that part I've seen from Hidayat's pieces. It may have whatever you've said, but how does it fare physically?

My earlier comment is just my personal observation and opinion.
My opinion still stands, unless it could be persuaded otherwise.

[ganjawulung]

Dear Shahrial (part 2),
I like to have a keris from "short period" tangguh, like from Kesultanan Pajang (1551-1582) and of course from Pengging period (after Kesultanan Demak 1480-1550) and before 1582 Mataram Period. Usually, the short period has a very specific type. Like Pajang, has a special type in the base of two sogokan. (I can't say it with word. One must see the blade).

Pengging, has a "luk rengkol" with good iron, and slim model. The first spear in the picture above, is very strong. (With a "gigir sapi" or say it, back bone in the middle of the blade), strong enough to stab somebody. The Pengging style (picture 2), is also strong although it looks slim (but not to thin, with good iron).

Are those spears only for ceremonial purpose? I don't know. But in my opinion, the slim blade is quite strong to stab somebody... You will try?

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial (part 2),
I like to have a keris from "short period" tangguh, like from Kesultanan Pajang (1551-1582) and of course from Pengging period (after Kesultanan Demak 1480-1550) and before 1582 Mataram Period. Usually, the short period has a very specific type. Like Pajang, has a special type in the base of two sogokan. (I can't say it with word. One must see the blade).

The short period is probably the reason why there isn't enough time to create more styles... Maybe, if it's not too much to ask, could you share with us, in pictures, maybe we can learn something.

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Pengging, has a "luk rengkol" with good iron, and slim model. The first spear in the picture above, is very strong. (With a "gigir sapi" or say it, back bone in the middle of the blade), strong enough to stab somebody. The Pengging style (picture 2), is also strong although it looks slim (but not to thin, with good iron).

Are those spears only for ceremonial purpose? I don't know. But in my opinion, the slim blade is quite strong to stab somebody... You will try?

Ganjawulung

Maybe you could ship it over and I'll try stabbing myself with it. If you don't hear from me, hmmm... I might be gone, otherwise, your blade might be damaged.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

...Maybe you could ship it over and I'll try stabbing myself with it. If you don't hear from me, hmmm... I might be gone, otherwise, your blade might be damaged.

Ha, ha, ha, but I wouldn't ship it to you...

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Ha, ha, ha, but I wouldn't ship it to you...

Just kidding ya... don't take it to heart, ok. I prefer constructive opinions... You have very nice pieces. The 'Pengging' pieces are not many and hard to come by (real ones that is).

I do welcome more info on 'Pengging' period pieces.

[ganjawulung]

Dear Shahrial and All,

These pictures below, showing spear point of tangguh Pajajaran (The Hindhu Kingdom, the ancestor of Islamic Kingdom of Cirebon). It wears dhapur (people called it) "kuntul ngantuk" (sleepy bird, a kind of paddy field bird with long beak). Tangguh Pajajaran, usually has a good iron, good pamor (Pajajaran Kingdom has good relation -- if I'm not mistaken -- with Portuguese). But not Pajajaran awal (in the beginning of Pajajaran), which usually not quite good iron. Nearly budo iron in kudi and kujang...

I don't know whether you see a "raja gundala" in this Pajajaran spear or not.. It was formerly owned by a dukun (practitioner) in Central Java. And the dhukun had died, his son sold the spear to me...

Ganjawulung

[ganjawulung]

Dear Shahrial and All,

Want more? This is a very humble piece, a spear which (supposed) bears tangguh Mataram (Islam, not old Mataram Hindhu) period between 1582-1749. The dhapur is "korowelang", a kind name of lokal snake...

Ganjawulung

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear Shahrial and All,

Want more? This is a very humble piece, a spear which (supposed) bears tangguh Mataram (Islam, not old Mataram Hindhu) period between 1582-1749. The dhapur is "korowelang", a kind name of lokal snake...

Ganjawulung

Beautiful tombak. My kind of piece... would love to see more.