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1st June 2007, 11:51 AM
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#1 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Java
Posts: 137
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Quote:
 Just want to join, here I posted another keris with luk which called "Rengkol" as Gonjowulungs spears. And I think the keris with luk still can be used for weapon. In my mind, the keris with luk more suitable for weapon because it can make wider rip on body/skin when it used to stuck. That because from first luk at the point to bottom side made more wider. When we stuck the keris to the body, every luk will make wider rip on the skin. Different with straight keris which has simple form. But stright keris more focus to the target and make a dirrect stab. In the other hand, the keris with luk look stronger/rubbery because it has luk which seems like a spring when we used to stuck. I think it shown that the mPu on past period had thought about weapon structures, strength, and capabilities, etc...  Thats just my opinion
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1st June 2007, 12:26 PM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
Technically, with its slender profile, I doubt it makes an effective weapon. In a one-on-one encounter, an opponent could possibly deflect an attack quite effectively, with capability to disarm the keris wielder, with a piece of cloth/clothing. When facing multiple opponents, this type of blade tends to get stuck when stabbed. Retraction might be slower, worse if it get stuck in between the victim's ribs. If targeted at the lower abdomen area, it might not penetrate the opponent's 'ikat pinggang' or the blade might 'buckle' due to its 'fragile' looking nature. It might be more for aesthetics reasons rather than practicality, imho. My question: Where lies the strength of these Pengging-specific luk blades? 
Last edited by Alam Shah; 1st June 2007 at 12:37 PM. |
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1st June 2007, 05:22 PM
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Quote:
I am very very interested in the "kelengan" (black only) keris. The garap is so nice. From which tangguh, mas? Ganjawulung |
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2nd June 2007, 06:00 AM
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#4 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Java
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Actually me my self not too sure about the tangguh of my keris .So, would you please give me an advice. Did it the Pengging keris too ? Here I send more pictures. Thanks. |
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2nd June 2007, 10:39 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 199
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pengging or pakubuanan???
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3rd June 2007, 02:32 AM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Dear Mr Hidayat and All,
Tangguh is not a certainty. The word itself shows, that the meaning of "nangguh" (in keris term) is "guessing the period of making, based on specific details of the keris or spear"). If I say: "My keris or spear bears tangguh Pajajaran or Pengging, or Majapahit", once must be understood to as "supposed to be made in Pajajaran period" or possibly, "supposed to have Pajajaran style,". Many kerises, supposed with certain tangguh, actually was made in the different period after. From time to time, "knowledge" on tangguh is an oral and visual knowledge. One learns (or knows) tangguh, from seeing blades or spears. Sometimes from written opinion in the past, but really difficult to imagine the reality, without seeing examples. What I've known about tangguh, also seeing from thousands of kerises from hundreds of keris owners. Either they were keris collectors, or royal family (kerabat keraton), or at least from people which has collection of old heirlooms. You may find such source in Surakarta (Solo) or Yogyakarta. "Nangguh duwung" (guessing the period of making the keris), is always debatable. In my experience, other people can be other opinion on tangguh. But at least, there are certain compromises in specific details, like specific luks, the shape of ganja, the shape of kembang kacang, the sogokan (pajang style, if I'm not mistaken, has a specific form of 'bawang sebungkul' -- form of sogokan base in the keris, not form of pamor --), and tangguh pengging with very specific luks usually (not certain) not more than five luks. Some Mataram style, has rengkol luks too. (See pictures below, spears supposed to be from tangguh Mataram Senopaten, or Senopaten style at least). One decides tangguh, also from the iron of the blade. Tangguh Sedayu (actually, Sedayu is the noble name of empu Supamandrangi in Majapahit period or he wore name Empu Pitrang in Blambangan. Sedayu, very wellknown of its specific 'black' iron which is only known by seeing it. Like Pengging, was not a period of a kingdom. Pengging was only a Kadipaten in the period of Demak Islamic Kingdom. Pengging under Ki Ageng Pengging (formerly Ki Kebo Kenanga), disobeyed the King of Demak as a result of 'different aliran of Islam' with Demak -- see 'stories' on Syech Siti Djenar -- and Pajang period, is a very short Kingdom after Demak, but just before Mataram (Sutowijoyo, or Panembahan Senopati). From which tangguh? Let's guessing your keris, afterwards... Ganjawulung |
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3rd June 2007, 04:23 PM
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#7 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Java
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Raden Usman had gave his opinion (thanks), and perhaps it can be a Pengging or Pakubuwanan keris. But I'm not sure, because the ricikans form of my keris not shown the Pengging keris. I think the Greneng and Jenggot too sharp and the ada-ada also sharp too for Pengging .
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3rd June 2007, 06:27 PM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Quote:
The luk's style, is pengging style. Very wavy. But if you see the details, you will find the 'strong' characteristics of "not tangguh pengging". Details of "rong dha nunut" (often erroneously spelled as "rondo nunut") or double greneng in the keris' tail, plus the complete ricikan/details in the gandhik -- see, there are "janggut" and "jenggot" on the "sekar kacang", clearly believed to be "Empu Kasa Style" or at least Madurese style. "Rong dha Nunut" or double greneng, means "two dha above the greneng". Dha, is the 12th character of Caraka Script (ha, na, cha, ra, ka, da, ta, sa, wa, la, pa, dha, ja, ya, nya... etc). The form of one greneng, is "dha" in Caraka script. And "nunut" is "to go with someone, for instant if someone invite you to go with his car together...) Please don't spell it as "rondo nunut" or "I go together with a widow", or "The widow is living with me...". About this, of course Mas Mans Hidayat already knows well. Many Mataram style kerises bear the complete ricikan like "Kasa's style" or Madurese style. Look also my "Kalabendu" luk 29 in the other thread. There are also double greneng, or "rong dha nunut". It supposed, that the empu of the Kalabendu keris, was Madurese origin. About your keris, is quite embarassing. Because, the "garap" or work of art, is very fine. With kruwingan on both side of the blade, from "sor-soran" (keris base) to the point of the keris. Like many Mataram kerises. The iron, also embarassingly good. Overall, the "garap" quality of this keris is excellent. But, I guessed, that this is a "nom-noman" or "nem-neman" keris. Kerises which were made in the Mataram era (1582-1789) and after -- until now, usually called as "keris nem-neman". Please, correct me if I'm mistaken, Mr Hidayat... Ganjawulung |
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. On a personal level, although these might look intimidating, I find these blades and spear points to be ineffective as weapons. Perhaps mostly used as ceremonial? 
Hybrid Mode
