Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts

VVV · 30th May 2007, 06:11 AM

I suspect that your sword handle also is a makara.
Your keris hilt, with female forms, usually is considered to represent Durga, a shakti of Shiva.

Michael

ganjawulung · 30th May 2007, 09:27 AM

Hi Michael,

I know, you will share your knowledge on handles (hilts). It is interesting for me, because the Ensiklopedi Keris didn't mention a word on makara (Correct me if I'm wrong).

Anything you know about Durga hilt?

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2007, 09:29 AM

Michael, I have heard this form of jejeran repeatedly claimed as a representation of Durga.

Can you tell me where this belief first arose?

In respect of Durga, I think it may be more correct to refer to her as one of the forms Devi.

Devi, the daughter of Himavat (the Himalayas), is the wife of Shiva.

Devi has many names,which refer to her many forms, attributes and actions, and as the wife of Shiva she is Shiva's Shakti, or female energy.

In her terrible form she is known as Durga, but it is incorrect to refer to Durga as Shiva's Shakti: Devi is Shiva's shakti.

In Jawa and Bali, Dewi Sri is the goddess of rice, essentially the mother of life, as she has power over rice. Her name is a compound of Devi (Shiva's wife, Maha-Devi, the Great Goddess), and Lakshmi who also has the name Sri, and is a wife of Vishnu and the goddess of fortune.Thus, Dewi Sri represents life and death, and good fortune.

I have only ever heard this form of jejeran referred to in Jawa as "wadon"---woman, however, it is my firm belief that it is a representation of Dewi Sri , not Durga. I can see no basis in Javanese traditional belief for Durga to be represented in a jejeran, on the other hand there is ample justification for Dewi Sri to appear as a jejeran.

Coming back to my original question:- where did this Durga belief first arise?

VVV · 30th May 2007, 12:50 PM

Alan,

This is a very complex question to answer because of, as you know, Hinduism is not one religion and even Shivaism includes a lot of different beliefs.
But I will give it a try based on my present understanding (which may radically change in the future the more I study it) and in English, which is not my native tongue.

A. What is Shiva?

Shiva is something abstract and could be understood in many ways:

1. Shiva is formless and could only be explained with what he is not.
2. Shiva could be slightly understood when he manifests himself in this world (as shakti).
He creates, maintains and destroys this world but he is also the one who hides the true world (illusion/veil, maya) and saves with his mercy.
Shiva has both male (passive) and female (active - shakti) aspects explained as:

a) The "intellectual version"
Shiva is in a vertical line divided into a male and female body. This means that shakti is not a separate devi but an aspect of Shiva's two sides.
Sometimes this is also represented by the active female shakti who is dancing on the passive, sleeping, male Shiva. Shiva has no form (nirguna) but shakti has form (saguna). When Shiva manifest himself in the world he uses shakti, the female form, that has several names like Uma, Parvati, Durga, Kali, Ganga etc. depending on what it's supposed to do. But they are all Shiva and not separate goddesses.

b) The "folk version".

Shiva is a god who is married to the goddess Devi. In the stories Devi has several incarnations as Uma, Parvati etc. Sometimes f.i. Parvati creates a manifestation as Durga etc. Probably the different names originates from local variations and former goddesses?

B. Why Durga?

Durga is a form of the Shakti/Maha-Devi [depending on version a) or b) above].
I have found three reasons to believe it's probable that it's specifically Durga and not the overall Maha-Devi on the hilts:

a) Durga is specifically mentioned in old sources connected with keris, f.i. the Keris Ki Lobar with Durga Dingkul of Gajah Mada (Wiener p. 110) as well as Kerner's different works - f.i. Der keris Ki Sudamala or Keris-griffe aus Museum und privatsammlungen. Probably M Kerner is the one to best answer your question on why Durga?

b) There are several sculptures of Durga found on Java, connected to the Shiva-cult, and she is connected with victory and death.

c) The face is never realistic portrayed on these hilts, as f.i. the Raksasa hilts, but hidden or veiled. According to a myth no man will survive seeing the face of Durga. This is not the case with Devi-Sri according to my understanding?

Michael

VVV · 30th May 2007, 04:02 PM

Alan,

I forgot to mention that there is a connection in some stories between Durga and maybe "your" Devi-Sri?
One version is that Durga is Shiva's shakti supported by the shaktis of the other devas. This means that Durga is the combined shakti of all the deva gods even if Shiva is supposed to be the lead shakti. This happened f.i. in one version of the story on how Durga slained the buffalo asura Mahisha (who couldn't be killed by the hand of a man due to a boon granted to him by Brahma).
In this version Durga could be seen as the combined mother goddess (maybe like the Balinese Devi-Sri who I am not that familiar with?).
That's the problem with Hindu myths; so many story versions, levels of understanding and sometimes contradictions.

Michael

30th May 2007, 06:11 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I suspect that your sword handle also is a makara. Your keris hilt, with female forms, usually is considered to represent Durga, a shakti of Shiva. Michael

30th May 2007, 09:27 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Hi Michael, I know, you will share your knowledge on handles (hilts). It is interesting for me, because the Ensiklopedi Keris didn't mention a word on makara (Correct me if I'm wrong). Anything you know about Durga hilt?

30th May 2007, 09:29 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	Michael, I have heard this form of jejeran repeatedly claimed as a representation of Durga. Can you tell me where this belief first arose? In respect of Durga, I think it may be more correct to refer to her as one of the forms Devi. Devi, the daughter of Himavat (the Himalayas), is the wife of Shiva. Devi has many names,which refer to her many forms, attributes and actions, and as the wife of Shiva she is Shiva's Shakti, or female energy. In her terrible form she is known as Durga, but it is incorrect to refer to Durga as Shiva's Shakti: Devi is Shiva's shakti. In Jawa and Bali, Dewi Sri is the goddess of rice, essentially the mother of life, as she has power over rice. Her name is a compound of Devi (Shiva's wife, Maha-Devi, the Great Goddess), and Lakshmi who also has the name Sri, and is a wife of Vishnu and the goddess of fortune.Thus, Dewi Sri represents life and death, and good fortune. I have only ever heard this form of jejeran referred to in Jawa as "wadon"---woman, however, it is my firm belief that it is a representation of Dewi Sri , not Durga. I can see no basis in Javanese traditional belief for Durga to be represented in a jejeran, on the other hand there is ample justification for Dewi Sri to appear as a jejeran. Coming back to my original question:- where did this Durga belief first arise?

30th May 2007, 12:50 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Alan, This is a very complex question to answer because of, as you know, Hinduism is not one religion and even Shivaism includes a lot of different beliefs. But I will give it a try based on my present understanding (which may radically change in the future the more I study it) and in English, which is not my native tongue. A. What is Shiva? Shiva is something abstract and could be understood in many ways: 1. Shiva is formless and could only be explained with what he is not. 2. Shiva could be slightly understood when he manifests himself in this world (as shakti). He creates, maintains and destroys this world but he is also the one who hides the true world (illusion/veil, maya) and saves with his mercy. Shiva has both male (passive) and female (active - shakti) aspects explained as: a) The "intellectual version" Shiva is in a vertical line divided into a male and female body. This means that shakti is not a separate devi but an aspect of Shiva's two sides. Sometimes this is also represented by the active female shakti who is dancing on the passive, sleeping, male Shiva. Shiva has no form (nirguna) but shakti has form (saguna). When Shiva manifest himself in the world he uses shakti, the female form, that has several names like Uma, Parvati, Durga, Kali, Ganga etc. depending on what it's supposed to do. But they are all Shiva and not separate goddesses. b) The "folk version". Shiva is a god who is married to the goddess Devi. In the stories Devi has several incarnations as Uma, Parvati etc. Sometimes f.i. Parvati creates a manifestation as Durga etc. Probably the different names originates from local variations and former goddesses? B. Why Durga? Durga is a form of the Shakti/Maha-Devi [depending on version a) or b) above]. I have found three reasons to believe it's probable that it's specifically Durga and not the overall Maha-Devi on the hilts: a) Durga is specifically mentioned in old sources connected with keris, f.i. the Keris Ki Lobar with Durga Dingkul of Gajah Mada (Wiener p. 110) as well as Kerner's different works - f.i. Der keris Ki Sudamala or Keris-griffe aus Museum und privatsammlungen. Probably M Kerner is the one to best answer your question on why Durga? b) There are several sculptures of Durga found on Java, connected to the Shiva-cult, and she is connected with victory and death. c) The face is never realistic portrayed on these hilts, as f.i. the Raksasa hilts, but hidden or veiled. According to a myth no man will survive seeing the face of Durga. This is not the case with Devi-Sri according to my understanding? Michael

30th May 2007, 04:02 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Alan, I forgot to mention that there is a connection in some stories between Durga and maybe "your" Devi-Sri? One version is that Durga is Shiva's shakti supported by the shaktis of the other devas. This means that Durga is the combined shakti of all the deva gods even if Shiva is supposed to be the lead shakti. This happened f.i. in one version of the story on how Durga slained the buffalo asura Mahisha (who couldn't be killed by the hand of a man due to a boon granted to him by Brahma). In this version Durga could be seen as the combined mother goddess (maybe like the Balinese Devi-Sri who I am not that familiar with?). That's the problem with Hindu myths; so many story versions, levels of understanding and sometimes contradictions. Michael