Indo-Persian knife for comment

Rick · 6th December 2004, 09:39 PM

Guy , I'd love to see a close up of that blade taken in natural light .
It is a most fascinating wootz pattern .

GuyM · 6th December 2004, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Guy , I'd love to see a close up of that blade taken in natural light .
It is a most fascinating wootz pattern .

All the previous picures except for the very last one have been taken in natural light (and it shows, the last one is definitely not as good as the previous ones). But I will take some more pictures as soon as daylight is back :-), concentrating on the wootz pattern. I have to say that taking pictures of such a delicate feature of the metal is quite a challenge!

Rick · 6th December 2004, 11:16 PM

Yes , I agree , it's hard to get no light reflection at all .
Cloudy bright days are best for this lighting .

Photoshop or Irfanview could help manipulate the picture to accentuate the patterning .

ariel · 7th December 2004, 01:09 AM

I have a friend from Uzbekistan and he told me that such a knife is called Pichok.
The similarity with the Turkish name Bichaq is obvious and perfectly understandable: Uzbeks are descended from Turkic-Mongol tribes and share the same ethnic roots with the "traditional" Turks. They have adopted their name in honor of one of the Altyn Orda Khans, Ozbek. By the way, this is a very popular boy's name in modern Turkey.
Tajiks are native Central Asians and are close to Persians. They are still smarting from the devastation inflicted upon them by the Mongols and view Uzbeks as "intruders"; when talking to a Tajik, do NOT call him Uzbek!

GuyM · 7th December 2004, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yes , I agree , it's hard to get no light reflection at all .
Cloudy bright days are best for this lighting .

Definitely, I took all my pictures on cloudy days, we've got a lot of them this time of the year around here :-)

Anyway, here's the new lot. It's hard to get a picture of the whole blade with the wootz patterns coming out decently, but for the real fans, I've reverted to plan B: high def scanner. The result is not bad at all, if a little bright (but this can be mended with Photoshop), however, the 1200 dpi scan is a whoping 20Mb, so if someone's got a place for storing this file on a server, I'd be happy to upload it there, this forum's site won't take it.

I hope the new pictures will give you a better idea of this very nice wootz pattern. Personally, I could not find any 'structure' to it, no ladder or anything like that, just a stream of flowing water.

Anyone's got an idea of the age of the piece?

Thanks!

Rick · 7th December 2004, 09:55 PM

Great pictures Guy !
Thanks very much .

I love the pattern .
I wonder if it has been manipulated by the smith .
Sham wootz possibly ?

Comments ?

Jeff D · 7th December 2004, 11:50 PM

Beautiful Guy.

Nothing sham about this pattern! My best guess is 19th century (thin lines lighter contrast etc...). Lots of activity, very nice indeed.

Jeff

Rick · 8th December 2004, 12:01 AM

Could you suggest a type of wootz for this intriguing pattern ?

GuyM · 8th December 2004, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder if it has been manipulated by the smith .

I personaly don't think it has been, it seems very 'natural' if you know what I mean. But then this is my first wootz blade, and I've had only a few others in my hands.

Is there an ''encyclopedia" of wootz patterns somewhere other than in a few knowledgeable people's memory? I'd be very interested in having a look at it. If not, is it conceivable to start a new thread inviting people to contribute pictures of wootz patterns, identified or not?

Thanks

Rick · 8th December 2004, 09:01 PM

Guy,
There's always ON DAMASCUS STEEL by Leo S. Figiel MD .
There are a lot of pictures of different patterns in this book .
A starting place for Wootz study and worth buying if you don't already have it .

6th December 2004, 09:39 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Daylight Guy , I'd love to see a close up of that blade taken in natural light . It is a most fascinating wootz pattern .

7th December 2004, 09:55 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Great Work ! Great pictures Guy ! Thanks very much . I love the pattern . I wonder if it has been manipulated by the smith . Sham wootz possibly ? Comments ?

6th December 2004, 11:16 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Yes , I agree , it's hard to get no light reflection at all . Cloudy bright days are best for this lighting . Photoshop or Irfanview could help manipulate the picture to accentuate the patterning .

7th December 2004, 01:09 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have a friend from Uzbekistan and he told me that such a knife is called Pichok. The similarity with the Turkish name Bichaq is obvious and perfectly understandable: Uzbeks are descended from Turkic-Mongol tribes and share the same ethnic roots with the "traditional" Turks. They have adopted their name in honor of one of the Altyn Orda Khans, Ozbek. By the way, this is a very popular boy's name in modern Turkey. Tajiks are native Central Asians and are close to Persians. They are still smarting from the devastation inflicted upon them by the Mongols and view Uzbeks as "intruders"; when talking to a Tajik, do NOT call him Uzbek!

7th December 2004, 11:50 PM	#7
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Beautiful Guy. Nothing sham about this pattern! My best guess is 19th century (thin lines lighter contrast etc...). Lots of activity, very nice indeed. Jeff

8th December 2004, 12:01 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Could you suggest a type of wootz for this intriguing pattern ?

8th December 2004, 09:01 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Guy, There's always ON DAMASCUS STEEL by Leo S. Figiel MD . There are a lot of pictures of different patterns in this book . A starting place for Wootz study and worth buying if you don't already have it .