Eastern Sword: Origin and Age?

Yannis · 23rd May 2007, 12:32 AM

Nice test. This sword look familiar to many of us for different reasons. I cannot say if it is East Asian, French or from outer space but it is an elegant, smart, antique piece from the colonized globalization of 19th century.

Will they look, 100 years from now, the fantasy swords of our time and wonder if they are Korean or American? In my opinion this piece is beautiful but it has no character. Or it has its own cosmopolitan status but no ethnic identity. Maybe this is also its main value, as early example of the international village.

Tatyana Dianova · 23rd May 2007, 08:58 AM

Thank you guys for your replies! This small sword appeared even more interesting, than I have thought. I like the pirate version the most

, at least it can explain why the sword have seen so much use during its life.
It is really an eBay find, where it was sold as a Kastane type sword. I bought it, because I liked its fittings.
I want to add one more picture: the monster head on the guard. Enjoy!

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM

Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c.
Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times.

The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment?

Best regards,
Jim

Nick Wardigo · 23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM

This piece is really fascinating.

Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here.

I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there.

Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?

t_c · 24th May 2007, 03:01 AM

Good eye Nick,
It does seem similar to patterns on Madurese keris handles.

Rick · 24th May 2007, 03:36 PM

What strikes me is the difference in quality and execution between the white metal 'engraving' and the brass repousse on the scabbard and handle.
Could the white metal be a later addition to the scabbard; possibly to cover the loss of original decoration ?

Nick Wardigo · 25th May 2007, 01:51 PM

I agree, Rick...the vast difference in workmanship leads me to think that the white metal fittings were added later. In fact, I find it odd that all of the scabbard fittings are pressed up against one another; it's like the white metal fittings were never intended for this scabbard. I wonder if the white metal fittings came from another weapon entirely and were scavenged to complete this piece.

23rd May 2007, 08:58 AM	#2
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Thank you guys for your replies! This small sword appeared even more interesting, than I have thought. I like the pirate version the most , at least it can explain why the sword have seen so much use during its life. It is really an eBay find, where it was sold as a Kastane type sword. I bought it, because I liked its fittings. I want to add one more picture: the monster head on the guard. Enjoy! Attached Images

23rd May 2007, 12:32 AM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Nice test. This sword look familiar to many of us for different reasons. I cannot say if it is East Asian, French or from outer space but it is an elegant, smart, antique piece from the colonized globalization of 19th century. Will they look, 100 years from now, the fantasy swords of our time and wonder if they are Korean or American? In my opinion this piece is beautiful but it has no character. Or it has its own cosmopolitan status but no ethnic identity. Maybe this is also its main value, as early example of the international village.

23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,510	Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c. Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times. The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment? Best regards, Jim

23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM	#4
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	This piece is really fascinating. Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here. I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there. Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?

24th May 2007, 03:01 AM	#5
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Good eye Nick, It does seem similar to patterns on Madurese keris handles.

24th May 2007, 03:36 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	What strikes me is the difference in quality and execution between the white metal 'engraving' and the brass repousse on the scabbard and handle. Could the white metal be a later addition to the scabbard; possibly to cover the loss of original decoration ?

25th May 2007, 01:51 PM	#7
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	I agree, Rick...the vast difference in workmanship leads me to think that the white metal fittings were added later. In fact, I find it odd that all of the scabbard fittings are pressed up against one another; it's like the white metal fittings were never intended for this scabbard. I wonder if the white metal fittings came from another weapon entirely and were scavenged to complete this piece.