Eastern Sword: Origin and Age?

Flavio · 22nd May 2007, 06:47 PM

Thank you for your kindness Jim

RSWORD · 22nd May 2007, 07:45 PM

I would vote Malaysia on this example. The scabbard style, with the European style drag, the belt hook and the open design work between the silver mounts, reminds me of some Pedang style swords, some with monster head hilts and some with this style of downcurving hilt. For a similar example, without scabbard, please refer to "Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes" by Buttin, plate XXVII #904. That example, with similar style handle, is labeled as Malaysian Pirate sword.

Tim Simmons · 22nd May 2007, 08:06 PM

Surely this must be from French Indochina or areas under that colonial influence. A pirates weapon is a good suggestion. I wonder if it was taken and added to. It has been added to. The French style is undeniable in art work , blade and hilt.

Henk · 22nd May 2007, 08:09 PM

I go with RSWORD. The first thing I thought when I saw the scabbard was that it was made in Indonesia. I think it is a pedang. I don't have the books with me at this moment but I do remember and I thought it was in Van Zonneveld I saw a pedang with an European look.

Yannis · 23rd May 2007, 12:32 AM

Nice test. This sword look familiar to many of us for different reasons. I cannot say if it is East Asian, French or from outer space but it is an elegant, smart, antique piece from the colonized globalization of 19th century.

Will they look, 100 years from now, the fantasy swords of our time and wonder if they are Korean or American? In my opinion this piece is beautiful but it has no character. Or it has its own cosmopolitan status but no ethnic identity. Maybe this is also its main value, as early example of the international village.

Tatyana Dianova · 23rd May 2007, 08:58 AM

Thank you guys for your replies! This small sword appeared even more interesting, than I have thought. I like the pirate version the most

, at least it can explain why the sword have seen so much use during its life.
It is really an eBay find, where it was sold as a Kastane type sword. I bought it, because I liked its fittings.
I want to add one more picture: the monster head on the guard. Enjoy!

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM

Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c.
Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times.

The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment?

Best regards,
Jim

Nick Wardigo · 23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM

This piece is really fascinating.

Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here.

I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there.

Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?

23rd May 2007, 08:58 AM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 735	Thank you guys for your replies! This small sword appeared even more interesting, than I have thought. I like the pirate version the most , at least it can explain why the sword have seen so much use during its life. It is really an eBay find, where it was sold as a Kastane type sword. I bought it, because I liked its fittings. I want to add one more picture: the monster head on the guard. Enjoy! Attached Images

22nd May 2007, 06:47 PM	#1
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you for your kindness Jim

22nd May 2007, 07:45 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	I would vote Malaysia on this example. The scabbard style, with the European style drag, the belt hook and the open design work between the silver mounts, reminds me of some Pedang style swords, some with monster head hilts and some with this style of downcurving hilt. For a similar example, without scabbard, please refer to "Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes" by Buttin, plate XXVII #904. That example, with similar style handle, is labeled as Malaysian Pirate sword.

22nd May 2007, 08:06 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Surely this must be from French Indochina or areas under that colonial influence. A pirates weapon is a good suggestion. I wonder if it was taken and added to. It has been added to. The French style is undeniable in art work , blade and hilt.

22nd May 2007, 08:09 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I go with RSWORD. The first thing I thought when I saw the scabbard was that it was made in Indonesia. I think it is a pedang. I don't have the books with me at this moment but I do remember and I thought it was in Van Zonneveld I saw a pedang with an European look.

23rd May 2007, 12:32 AM	#5
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Nice test. This sword look familiar to many of us for different reasons. I cannot say if it is East Asian, French or from outer space but it is an elegant, smart, antique piece from the colonized globalization of 19th century. Will they look, 100 years from now, the fantasy swords of our time and wonder if they are Korean or American? In my opinion this piece is beautiful but it has no character. Or it has its own cosmopolitan status but no ethnic identity. Maybe this is also its main value, as early example of the international village.

23rd May 2007, 04:49 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,200	Well said Yannis! The effects of globalization certainly are reflected in the diffusion of weapon forms and decorative styles, and extremely pronounced in the hotbed of trade in these regions in the 19th c. Tatyana, the 'pirate' application could easily be the case, considering the profound activity taking place in these lucrative trade regions, and which still occurs there in modern times. The blade on this certainly appears from a European hanger, but since it is an interpretation of European form in the mounts, it is hard to place which location might have fashioned it...however SE Asia seems likely. Is brasswork more commonly found there? It seems Indonesia favored more silverwork in the repousse there, would that be a correct assessment? Best regards, Jim

23rd May 2007, 09:43 PM	#8
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	This piece is really fascinating. Speaking as someone who has stared at Vietnamese motifs for way too long, I can say that this does NOT look Vietnamese to me. True, the foliage and curly-cues appear to have a French influence, but even the heavily-French-influenced Vietnamese swords lack the regularity of pattern I'm seeing here. I like Rick's guess of Malaysia. The scabbard mounts remind me of weapons from there. Take a look at the pommel. The ribbed grip is, obviously, patterned after European swords, but the patterning on the pommel looks familiar...I think I've seen something like it in carved ivory. Are there keris handles with this sort of patterning?