Flyssa - I finally got one!!

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Flavio

Hey Lew, do you want to adopt me? I am only 31 years old

Flavio

I am 20yrs older than you so the idea is not too far fetched but then I would have access to your collection also

Lew

[Flavio]

It's OK, then we can start the iter for the adoption

[katana]

Hi Emanuel,
congrats......looks to be a very nice short flyssa..at last ..and like you I got mine cheaply, it was very dirty, the pictures were poor and it was listed as 'possibly a military bayonet'...

David


Lew. if the adoptions are freely available, count me in......as long as you could accept 'the raised eye brows'....I'm only 8 years your Junior.

[Emanuel]

Well, here are some more pics, as it never hurts to have pics.
Kronckew, my flyssa is very much like yours, with near-identical floral decoration on the spine. Actually, this is also very much like that on Lew's example, but i think his lost some of the brass.
Now I wonder if these variations represent different artisan hands, or the same at different times. If we take it that these "high-quality" flyssa were the work of the Iflissen, then did the same design persist over the years, or were most pieces produced in a short time period?
A detailed study of all of these would be interesting...anyone care to send me their flyssa for analysis?

I got around to uploading "Sabres Kabyles" by Camille Lacoste-Desjardinds. I've ranted on before about this treatise and I highly recommend it if you can read French... http://rapidshare.com/files/40972393/sabresKabyles.pdf

Emanuel

[Tim Simmons]

A small one that seems to have slightly different decoration, 42cm out of scabbard. I think I read somewhere that these small one in particular are known as vipers and the scabbards carving reflects there nature. i might have it all wrong and mixed up. Sorry the pics are a bit limited, short of time.

[kronckew]

as my earlier posts in this thread did not show the blade decorations, just the spines, here are the blades:
(last photo shows curved variant which has much the same decoration and carvings.
- and shows the replacement bands i added on the flyssa scabbard where they were missing. )





the slight variations in the decorations are almost like they came from the same shop and pattern book, but had different engravers with slightly different skills and emphasis. maybe they got bored making them all alike & added their own slight differences with artistic license.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Emanuel,
Thank you for posting this, and congratulations on finally obtaining an excellent example of these intriguing swords! Thank you also for always including interesting data, especially the comments on the work by Camille Lacoste-Desjardins. I have always wished I had access to this apparantly detailed work on the flyssa, the only in depth study I am aware of, but unfortunately I do not speak or read French.

Krockew, Tim and Lew thank you for also sharing your great examples as well !

When threads develop like this with such great input, it is especially rewarding to see the discussion including such comprehensive examples, and serious observations that better help us understand the weapons being studied.

As we have noted over the years, it does seem the 'flyssa' is a relative latecomer as a distinct form, and its development has been suggested to have come from the early Meditteranean sword forms such as machaira.This seems unlikely as there is no evidence of progressive development and the length of time with the forms unlinked is too long. It seems more plausible in my opinion that it came loosely from the deep bellied and virtually straight Ottoman yataghan of 16th c. ("The Age of Suleyman the Magnificent", 1990, p.64 #50), combined with the needle point form of blades on Circassian/Tatar sabres of c.16th-17th centuries. This hybridization would seem to have been an atavistic development that arose initially in the Grand Kabylie regions of Algeria, and generally held to have been armourers of the Ifflyssen tribe (hence the term 'flyssa').

The earliest known example (at least by narrative using the term) is said to have been presented to a Spanish envoy in 1827. The earliest known provenanced example I have found is one in the Foreign Legion museum in France, captured in combat in 1857. It is of the same form, motif and decoration seen in the well known examples generally seen.

That is primarily what is categorically known on the history of the flyssa from my own perspective, and it would be great to know of any earlier examples known, as well as any narrative data that might be included in material from the French military. It seems that more might be included on the actual use of these.

I agree that the smaller curved and almost dagger type examples are likely modern. I have seen the term 'wedding flyssa' used...is there any material authenticating the wearing of these weapons in wedding ceremonies?

We know that the geometric designs distinctly seen on the flyssa are primarily based on folk religious superstition, i.e. the triangular 'fibula' to protect from the evil eye. It is unclear what creature is represented in the stylized zoomorphic figure.......ideas??

On many flyssas there is a strange sort of hourglass figure usually toward to root of the blade....what does this represent?

Thanks very much everybody!

All best regards,
Jim