Keris Tindih -- The Neutralizer

Raden Usman Djogja · 21st May 2007, 12:54 PM

Alan,

Yes, I agree with you that my "terminology" is incorrect if our point of view is the technical aspect. However, as I know "panthek" has two meanings. The first one is you have already elaborated.

The second one, "panthek" is either bamboo, wood or metal which is used for special purpose. Even, visually, it is a pin or PAKU (gold, silver or triple blended metals), if it is for spiritual purpose, people call it "panthek" or "susuk". It is called "susuk" when it is injected to human body (for example to control pegnacy in medical field or to make attractive in spiritual field).

I hope my explanation will clearer my point of view, regarding with a word "panthek". Other example is Meneng and Lerem in Javanese language. Both words mean the state of motionless. However, javanese people tend to interpret "Meneng" different from "Lerem". Meneng is total motionless (physical and emotional). Lerem is partial motionless. During physical motionless, their emotional aspects (mind and heart) are still working. So, usually we face the situation whenever there are young people brawled, the elder person will say "lerem please" instead of "meneng please". So, in certain situation, there is a person looking for "a special nail" and metioning for "manthek". He should use it for spiritual purpose.

Okay, I do not want to defend my statement further. What I want is to follow where the river flows. As keris with luks, I want to "ngeluk" whenever there is a stone in front of my way. Instead of breaking stones, the final destination is to reach the ocean of wisdom.

A. G. Maisey · 21st May 2007, 01:37 PM

Thank you Raden for expanding my knowledge of the Javanese language.

I have only ever heard the pin, inserted in keris to reduce its heat, referred to as a paku or a pasak, now I have learnt that some people also refer to it as a panthek.

Similarly, I have understood---and in fact only ever heard--- "lerem" to mean "to calm down", whilst "meneng" I have understood as "to be quiet".A question of two minutes ago to another native speaker of Javanese has given me the meaning of "to shut your eyes" for merem.

You have taught me entirely different meanings.

This is the difference between a native speaker of a language and one who has only limited understanding.

Would you be so kind as to tell me the area of Jawa where you learnt these meanings?

Thank you.

Raden Usman Djogja · 21st May 2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Would you be so kind as to tell me the area of Jawa where you learnt these meanings?

Thank you.

Alan,

wouw... simple question but hard to answer.

I grew up in Rejodani, Sleman, Yogyakarta.
One of my hobbies was travelling. Attending from one Profesor/Kiai/Dukun/Talisman to another, starting whom lived near from till whom lived quite far from my home: Kaliurang, Magelang, Bantul, Yogya, Gunung Kidul, Klaten, Salatiga, Wonogiri, Temanggung, Purworejo, Purwokerto, Cilacap, Wonogiri, Pacitan, Bojonegoro, Demak, Kudus, Surakarta, Karanganyar, Ponorogo and so on and so on. Most of them spoke Javanese.
Once upon the time, I got those words I told to you already.

If I may know, where do you live now? Cause you said " another native spreaker". I hope... you live in either Surakarta, Jogjakarta or Semarang right now ang have been for a long time. So, I can communicate directly with you in Javanese. Ups, but, I will broke the regulation of this thread. English forum.
Well, I want to be obedient to follow the rule wherever I am

Usmen

21st May 2007, 12:54 PM	#1
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Alan, Yes, I agree with you that my "terminology" is incorrect if our point of view is the technical aspect. However, as I know "panthek" has two meanings. The first one is you have already elaborated. The second one, "panthek" is either bamboo, wood or metal which is used for special purpose. Even, visually, it is a pin or PAKU (gold, silver or triple blended metals), if it is for spiritual purpose, people call it "panthek" or "susuk". It is called "susuk" when it is injected to human body (for example to control pegnacy in medical field or to make attractive in spiritual field). I hope my explanation will clearer my point of view, regarding with a word "panthek". Other example is Meneng and Lerem in Javanese language. Both words mean the state of motionless. However, javanese people tend to interpret "Meneng" different from "Lerem". Meneng is total motionless (physical and emotional). Lerem is partial motionless. During physical motionless, their emotional aspects (mind and heart) are still working. So, usually we face the situation whenever there are young people brawled, the elder person will say "lerem please" instead of "meneng please". So, in certain situation, there is a person looking for "a special nail" and metioning for "manthek". He should use it for spiritual purpose. Okay, I do not want to defend my statement further. What I want is to follow where the river flows. As keris with luks, I want to "ngeluk" whenever there is a stone in front of my way. Instead of breaking stones, the final destination is to reach the ocean of wisdom.

21st May 2007, 01:37 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thank you Raden for expanding my knowledge of the Javanese language. I have only ever heard the pin, inserted in keris to reduce its heat, referred to as a paku or a pasak, now I have learnt that some people also refer to it as a panthek. Similarly, I have understood---and in fact only ever heard--- "lerem" to mean "to calm down", whilst "meneng" I have understood as "to be quiet".A question of two minutes ago to another native speaker of Javanese has given me the meaning of "to shut your eyes" for merem. You have taught me entirely different meanings. This is the difference between a native speaker of a language and one who has only limited understanding. Would you be so kind as to tell me the area of Jawa where you learnt these meanings? Thank you.