A tulwar from Kishanghar

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Jeff D

The hilt has raised images, I think it is an iron hilt with a silver wash. The strange thing is the patina is a darkish blue rather than black?

Hi Jeff. I've got a dha (what else? ) I picked up from Artzi a few years ago with silver fittings that have a rich blue, lusterous patina. I imagine this has something to do with the alloy? Perhaps Jose, or one of the metalurgists here can edify this for us.

It looks black here, but in the hand, it's clearly dark blue.

[Tim Simmons]

I am not a plater but the plater I use for replating peoples tableware tells me that the metal of the item to be plated will effect the colour. So when gold plating some objects a layer of copper is put on first to help the yellow gold. Silver straight on to steel will be effected, that may explain why even clean of oxidisation the silver has a blue hue. As to Andrews dha I think it is probably the quality of the silver.

[Marc]

There's many techniques to give a blue (or other) colour to a polished steel surface (you may be familiar with the term "bluing"). The basis of all of them is the formation of a (usually thin) layer of specific corrosion products that feature the colour of choice. This, of course, is different than painting, enameling, lacquering or other "covering" techniques, in that the idea is making the metal react chemically and produce a specific spices of compound with the right coloration. Depending on their nature, many of these layers have also some more or less effective protective properties in front of oxidation, combining aesthetics with functionality.

[Battara]

My ears were burning until I got onto this thread...

Sterling or purer will oxidize a bluish black and then turn into a dark black as more oxidation accrues.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Jeff,

Are you sure it is koftgari? You have the hilt of course, but it does not look like that to me – it looks as if it is in relief, and if that is so, it can’t be koftgari.

The bluish colour is something else, in one of my books is mentioned that they made the metal bluish or brownish – I have forgotten how they did it, but I am sure one or two of the members know how to do it.

Do you think they belong together or that they were brought together? The blade could be a lot older than the hilt – what do you think?

Jens

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Jeff,

Are you sure it is koftgari? You have the hilt of course, but it does not look like that to me – it looks as if it is in relief, and if that is so, it can’t be koftgari.

The bluish colour is something else, in one of my books is mentioned that they made the metal bluish or brownish – I have forgotten how they did it, but I am sure one or two of the members know how to do it.

Do you think they belong together or that they were brought together? The blade could be a lot older than the hilt – what do you think?

Jens

Hi Jens,

I thought the same as you, that the hilt was either chiseled or cast in relief, with the floral pattern raised over the back ground. That is until i looked at the details on the enlarged photo. In the back ground the iron hilt is clearly scored. (See below)
I am not sure when this hilt met the blade but it was awhile ago.(well soiled resin below, what ever that is worth )
Thanks Andrew, Tim, Marc and Jose on the possible blueing effect. I don't think it is a superficial wash, but more likely related to the intrinsic nature of the Silver. Various stages of the oxidation can be seen from Silver (in areas of recent wear) to a dark blue-black (in areas not exposed to wear). I would bet Jose is correct.

All the Best.
Jeff

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Jeff,

I did not mean to suggest that the blade and the hilt had been assembled recently, as it looks old to me. I only asked be course it seems to me as if the hilt was not made for this blade. It is interesting what you can see, when you take a good picture and blow it up on the screen. Details, which you have never seen before, suddenly appears in front of you – it is a good way to study the weapons, which you thought you knew.

The hilt decoration is strange, and I don’t think I have ever seen anything like it before, but I don’t think it is koftgari. The edges of the ‘background’ seem to be rounded, not with sharp edges, like it would be if it was koftgari, and the wear would be on the floral decoration not on the ‘background’ so this could not have been the reason for the round edges. Sometimes the gold/silver was not filed down to blade level, when koftgari was made, it was left in relief, but to decorate a whole hilt in this way is something I have not seen before. I have seen many different types of decoration, amongst them inlaid and gilded copper in relief. Are you quite sure it is koftgari?

Jens

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Are you quite sure it is koftgari?

Hi Jens,

He He He...I have learned, especially with Indian weapons not to be sure of anything However a thick Koftgari is the only explanation i can find for it. Any other ideas?


All the Best
Jeff