Stone club.

Tim Simmons · 3rd May 2007, 10:04 PM

I have not been able to get to town but I have not forgotten this thread and will purse it further. I have been looking at the islands that make up Vanuatu as well PNG , New Britain, New Ireland. All of these places could be supplied with Cape York goods or certainly flint from NE AUS. The trouble is this is fairly new ground. Go to an posh auction house punkahwallah and they only know what they last sold that looked similar where ever it was from. Probably confidently labeled PNG.

VANDOO · 3rd May 2007, 11:56 PM

OCEANIC CLUBS TEND TO BE WOOD MOST OF THE TIME BUT THERE ARE SOME STONE HEADED EXAMPLES. THE ONLY SOURCE OF OBSIDIAN WHICH I HAVE SEEN WAS FOUND IN THE ADMIRALTY ISLANDS I FORGET WHICH ISLAND BUT IT WAS SOUGHT AFTER THRUOUT THE REGION. MOST STONE CLUB HEADS I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN VOLCANIC STONE OR METAMORPHIC/SEDIMENTARY , I HAVE SEEN SOME QUARTZITE USED IN AUSTRALIA AS WELL ,USUALLY FOR KNIVES AND ADZ HEADS. THE FAVORED VOLCANIC STONE IS BASALT WHICH IS HEAVIER THAN THE LAVA THAT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO THE AIR AND FLUFFED UP WITH BUBBLES. SERPENTINE IS ALSO USED WHICH IS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS METAMORPHIC AND CAN EVENTUALLY TURN INTO JADE WHICH IS ALSO SOUGHT AFTER. THE MOUNT HAGEN CEREMONIAL AXES SEEM TO HAVE HEADS MADE OF SOME FORM OF SHALE OR HARD SOAPSTONE, SOME OF WHICH IS QUITE BEAUTIFUL BUT CHIPS EASILY OT THE EDGE. GRANITE IS ALSO USED WHERE IT CAN BE FOUND BUT I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY SEEN A GRANITE CLUB ON AN OCEANIC WEAPON.
THE AMERICAS HAVE A AMPLE SUPPLY OF FLINT SO IT IS A COMMON MATERIAL USED FOR POINTS AND KNIVES BUT OTHER HEAVIER STONES WERE USUALLY USED FOR WAR CLUBS. EUROPE AND EGYPT HAVE LOTS OF FLINT BUT THAT IS AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEGE GOES AS TO WHERE FLINT IS USED.

VANDOO · 4th May 2007, 12:10 AM

I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A FEW PICTURES FOR GRINS.

I AM SURPRIZED ALL 4 CAME THRU. #1 DOUBLE HEADED OBSIDIAN SPEAR ADMIRALTY IS.
#2 SOLOMON ISLANDS, RENNEL IS. STONE HEADED CLUB, BASALT
#3 AZMAT CLUB VOLCANIC STONE
#4 OLD PAPUA STONE CLUB HEAD, VOLCANIC STONE.

VANDOO · 4th May 2007, 12:25 AM

I AM FEELING LUCKY I WILL TRY A FEW MORE

#1 PNG. VOLCANIC STONE AX SHOWN MOUNTED
#2 OLD KUKU WOODEN CLUB SIMILUAR TO SOME OF THE STONE FORMS FROM NEW GUINEA
#3 PNG STONE ADZ SOFT STONE HEAD PROBABLY CEREMONIAL OR RECENT AND NOT FOR USE.
#4 RECENT CEREMONIAL AX PNG. PRETTY GREEN STONE AX BLADE LOOKS LIKE JADE BUT CAN BE SCRATCHED WITH A KNIFE. SOAPSTONE?

I DON'T HAVE ANY PICTURES OF THE AUSTRALIAN QUARTZITE MATERIAL SO WILL HAVE TO LOOK FARTHER. THIS IS NOT MUCH HELP IDENTIFING THE FLINT NODULE BUT PERHAPS IT POINTS THE WAY FROM OCEANIC TO A CONTINENTAL ORIGIN UNLESS THERE IS FLINT USED IN AUSTRALIA OR NEW GUINEA OR NEW ZEALAND WHICH I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SEEN. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD CONTACT THE ARTEFACT OR ROCK HUNTING CLUBS IN THOSE COUNTRYS TO FIND OUT FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK

Tim Simmons · 4th May 2007, 06:42 PM

Interesting stuff.

Page 1 "the quarried flint nodules from the cave were taken elsewhere and made into tools"

We also know from Haddons observations that flint was indeed a trade item.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...aborigines.pdf

This one is good too, with pics.

http://nma.gov.au/shared/libraries/a...stories_bw.pdf

Tim Simmons · 5th May 2007, 07:49 PM

Short of the okay from the British Museum official wallah, in spite of much indisputable supportive evidence there seems to be a severe case of "not in the book syndrome" as if a complete catalogue is ever possible in the first place, we know all forms there in the book stupid.

Tim Simmons · 9th August 2007, 08:19 PM

I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards.

Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit.
Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy

.

There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece.

Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me

.

9th August 2007, 08:19 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,935	I finally managed to get into town today. Before I go any further on the club I will just tell you that I also visited the Wallace collection. This was rather humbling, but take heart we on this forum from what I have seen are all in possession of at least one piece worthy of the most prestigious collection. keep a look out on their web site as the oriental arms are to be published some time October onwards. Okay the visit to the Anthropological centre at the BM was a little disappointing. I could find stacks of related information more than I could copy but nothing exactly the same. Also there is no expert on call as there used to be when a worked at my "Alter Mater" the museum of mankind. beside I did not take the object with me. I could pursue it even further by visiting the store which would still be free but I really do not have the time to commit. Anyway lets look at what i could find. There are some splendid old German books from the very early 1900s in the centre with fantastic pictures. This picture is interesting as it has, that old chestnut the saw fish bill. Which is handy . There were references to a great many cult/magic totem stone and bird head objects, as i mention earlier the club in question could be a staff or ceremonial. I was able to bet a good photo copy of this shell axe which is much less fine than the club. What is note worthy is the use of barked wood and wood stripped of bark as in my piece. Finally I thought this is quite an interesting picture. Judging by the size of this chaps tool I would say he was nearly as big as me . Last edited by Tim Simmons; 9th August 2007 at 08:35 PM.

3rd May 2007, 10:04 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,935	I have not been able to get to town but I have not forgotten this thread and will purse it further. I have been looking at the islands that make up Vanuatu as well PNG , New Britain, New Ireland. All of these places could be supplied with Cape York goods or certainly flint from NE AUS. The trouble is this is fairly new ground. Go to an posh auction house punkahwallah and they only know what they last sold that looked similar where ever it was from. Probably confidently labeled PNG.

3rd May 2007, 11:56 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	OCEANIC CLUBS TEND TO BE WOOD MOST OF THE TIME BUT THERE ARE SOME STONE HEADED EXAMPLES. THE ONLY SOURCE OF OBSIDIAN WHICH I HAVE SEEN WAS FOUND IN THE ADMIRALTY ISLANDS I FORGET WHICH ISLAND BUT IT WAS SOUGHT AFTER THRUOUT THE REGION. MOST STONE CLUB HEADS I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN VOLCANIC STONE OR METAMORPHIC/SEDIMENTARY , I HAVE SEEN SOME QUARTZITE USED IN AUSTRALIA AS WELL ,USUALLY FOR KNIVES AND ADZ HEADS. THE FAVORED VOLCANIC STONE IS BASALT WHICH IS HEAVIER THAN THE LAVA THAT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO THE AIR AND FLUFFED UP WITH BUBBLES. SERPENTINE IS ALSO USED WHICH IS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS METAMORPHIC AND CAN EVENTUALLY TURN INTO JADE WHICH IS ALSO SOUGHT AFTER. THE MOUNT HAGEN CEREMONIAL AXES SEEM TO HAVE HEADS MADE OF SOME FORM OF SHALE OR HARD SOAPSTONE, SOME OF WHICH IS QUITE BEAUTIFUL BUT CHIPS EASILY OT THE EDGE. GRANITE IS ALSO USED WHERE IT CAN BE FOUND BUT I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY SEEN A GRANITE CLUB ON AN OCEANIC WEAPON. THE AMERICAS HAVE A AMPLE SUPPLY OF FLINT SO IT IS A COMMON MATERIAL USED FOR POINTS AND KNIVES BUT OTHER HEAVIER STONES WERE USUALLY USED FOR WAR CLUBS. EUROPE AND EGYPT HAVE LOTS OF FLINT BUT THAT IS AS FAR AS MY KNOWLEGE GOES AS TO WHERE FLINT IS USED.

4th May 2007, 12:10 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WILL TRY AND PUT IN A FEW PICTURES FOR GRINS. I AM SURPRIZED ALL 4 CAME THRU. #1 DOUBLE HEADED OBSIDIAN SPEAR ADMIRALTY IS. #2 SOLOMON ISLANDS, RENNEL IS. STONE HEADED CLUB, BASALT #3 AZMAT CLUB VOLCANIC STONE #4 OLD PAPUA STONE CLUB HEAD, VOLCANIC STONE. Attached Images

4th May 2007, 12:25 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AM FEELING LUCKY I WILL TRY A FEW MORE #1 PNG. VOLCANIC STONE AX SHOWN MOUNTED #2 OLD KUKU WOODEN CLUB SIMILUAR TO SOME OF THE STONE FORMS FROM NEW GUINEA #3 PNG STONE ADZ SOFT STONE HEAD PROBABLY CEREMONIAL OR RECENT AND NOT FOR USE. #4 RECENT CEREMONIAL AX PNG. PRETTY GREEN STONE AX BLADE LOOKS LIKE JADE BUT CAN BE SCRATCHED WITH A KNIFE. SOAPSTONE? I DON'T HAVE ANY PICTURES OF THE AUSTRALIAN QUARTZITE MATERIAL SO WILL HAVE TO LOOK FARTHER. THIS IS NOT MUCH HELP IDENTIFING THE FLINT NODULE BUT PERHAPS IT POINTS THE WAY FROM OCEANIC TO A CONTINENTAL ORIGIN UNLESS THERE IS FLINT USED IN AUSTRALIA OR NEW GUINEA OR NEW ZEALAND WHICH I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY SEEN. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD CONTACT THE ARTEFACT OR ROCK HUNTING CLUBS IN THOSE COUNTRYS TO FIND OUT FOR SURE. GOOD LUCK Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 4th May 2007 at 12:44 AM.

4th May 2007, 06:42 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,935	Interesting stuff. Page 1 "the quarried flint nodules from the cave were taken elsewhere and made into tools" We also know from Haddons observations that flint was indeed a trade item. http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...aborigines.pdf This one is good too, with pics. http://nma.gov.au/shared/libraries/a...stories_bw.pdf

5th May 2007, 07:49 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,935	Short of the okay from the British Museum official wallah, in spite of much indisputable supportive evidence there seems to be a severe case of "not in the book syndrome" as if a complete catalogue is ever possible in the first place, we know all forms there in the book stupid.