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katana · 19th March 2007, 01:37 AM

Hi Flavio,
Congrats... I really like the Pedang..

..the influence of Hindu weapons seems unmistakable with the example you've posted. The hilt is great (very Khanda-ish) and the blade looks fantastic.

The blade on the Gurade is also very nice.....is it European ?

My knowledge of SEA weapons could be written on a postage stamp.....but the blade on the Mandau seems quite modern, the hilt has very little wear or patina. (yesterday I posted a recent Mandau.....functional, well balanced and basic with a good forged blade...but 40+ years old)

Regards David

RhysMichael · 19th March 2007, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Flavio,
Congrats... I really like the Pedang..

..the influence of Hindu weapons seems unmistakable with the example you've posted. The hilt is great (very Khanda-ish) and the blade looks fantastic.

Regards David

Some sources say Hindu and Buddist influence from India may have reached Aceh as early as the first century AD. Islam is believed to have first entered Aceh between the 8th and 12th century. Ariel Barkan noticed that it is influenced by the Indian Gulabghati hilt,

Mark · 19th March 2007, 03:20 PM

Regarding the mandau, we just had a very excellent talk at the Timonium seminar on the subject, which informed that the carving on the handle had very strong religious significance. The stylized motifs each represented a specific aspect of the Dyak cosmology, and the mandau as a whole was meant to represent the cosmos in a way. Erik said that sometimes months, or even a year, were taken to carve the handle.

In view of that, it seems very odd that the handle on this one is so roughly done and relatively unadorned. The lens shapes though are, I think, one of the traditional motifs - the leech.

Flavio · 19th March 2007, 06:39 PM

Hi all and thank you for your comments. On the Mandau: maybe from pictures it's hard to say but the blade is very nice and not crude at all with a beautiful inlaid work. I don't want to defende at any cost my piece but could be well that was collected early as the seller says: "The sword brought to the Netherlands by a Duth captain of the KPM steam package service who died in 1934. His first journey was in 1887 according to his grandson" Maybe this piece never had taken heads, as Ben would say, but I think that is quite old (early 900 at least), but i'm not an expert.
For the handle: we see also good mandaus with completly undecorated hilts, but maybe this is not the case. Just thoughts for discussion

Flavio · 19th March 2007, 06:43 PM

Thank you very much John, as usual your help is fundamental! Yes the decoration seems an H for latin alphabet, but for arabic alphabet maybe means other or nothing (just decoration). But could be that this kind of decoration was influenced by the Dutch? Just an idea

Flavio · 19th March 2007, 06:46 PM

For the guradè, if I'm not wrong, Roano (ROANOA) told me that the blade is German of the end of '800, but without the GG stamped.

Dajak · 19th March 2007, 08:49 PM

Hi I am sorry but the mandau is an new one the handle is poorly carved and also the side knife and the blade.

And I never read about that carving an Handle take s a year Mark.

The Dajaks are expert in nice carvings

Take a good look at the pics you can see what an handle and scabbard have to look like

I am not an expert but before anyone buy s a weapon get good informed and visit an museum online or look for some good books and information and an real old nice mandau are hard to get . but that count for most other weapons too I think.

Ben

RhysMichael · 19th March 2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

Thank you very much John, as usual your help is fundamental! Yes the decoration seems an H for latin alphabet, but for arabic alphabet maybe means other or nothing (just decoration). But could be that this kind of decoration was influenced by the Dutch? Just an idea

Actually I am just passing on the knowledge others here on this forum have been kind enough to share with me as I tried to get some information on these swords. I do really like these swords. I will look through the sources I have on the Dutch Aceh war and see if I can find anything on the letter H.

Erik was telling me this weekend about an old book on Aceh that sounds like a great reference. I hope to be able to find a copy of it and if so I will check there also.

Flavio · 19th March 2007, 10:28 PM

Ben, thank you for your suggestion, I will do so for my future purchases, you're perfectly correct saying that before to buy one have to know more

John, thank you very much I will look forward to see if you'll be able to find more

19th March 2007, 06:39 PM	#4
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Mandau Hi all and thank you for your comments. On the Mandau: maybe from pictures it's hard to say but the blade is very nice and not crude at all with a beautiful inlaid work. I don't want to defende at any cost my piece but could be well that was collected early as the seller says: "The sword brought to the Netherlands by a Duth captain of the KPM steam package service who died in 1934. His first journey was in 1887 according to his grandson" Maybe this piece never had taken heads, as Ben would say, but I think that is quite old (early 900 at least), but i'm not an expert. For the handle: we see also good mandaus with completly undecorated hilts, but maybe this is not the case. Just thoughts for discussion

19th March 2007, 06:43 PM	#5
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Pedang Thank you very much John, as usual your help is fundamental! Yes the decoration seems an H for latin alphabet, but for arabic alphabet maybe means other or nothing (just decoration). But could be that this kind of decoration was influenced by the Dutch? Just an idea

19th March 2007, 06:46 PM	#6
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Guradè For the guradè, if I'm not wrong, Roano (ROANOA) told me that the blade is German of the end of '800, but without the GG stamped.

19th March 2007, 08:49 PM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi I am sorry but the mandau is an new one the handle is poorly carved and also the side knife and the blade. And I never read about that carving an Handle take s a year Mark. The Dajaks are expert in nice carvings Take a good look at the pics you can see what an handle and scabbard have to look like I am not an expert but before anyone buy s a weapon get good informed and visit an museum online or look for some good books and information and an real old nice mandau are hard to get . but that count for most other weapons too I think. Ben Attached Images

19th March 2007, 01:37 AM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Flavio, Congrats... I really like the Pedang.. ..the influence of Hindu weapons seems unmistakable with the example you've posted. The hilt is great (very Khanda-ish) and the blade looks fantastic. The blade on the Gurade is also very nice.....is it European ? My knowledge of SEA weapons could be written on a postage stamp.....but the blade on the Mandau seems quite modern, the hilt has very little wear or patina. (yesterday I posted a recent Mandau.....functional, well balanced and basic with a good forged blade...but 40+ years old) Regards David

19th March 2007, 03:20 PM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Regarding the mandau, we just had a very excellent talk at the Timonium seminar on the subject, which informed that the carving on the handle had very strong religious significance. The stylized motifs each represented a specific aspect of the Dyak cosmology, and the mandau as a whole was meant to represent the cosmos in a way. Erik said that sometimes months, or even a year, were taken to carve the handle. In view of that, it seems very odd that the handle on this one is so roughly done and relatively unadorned. The lens shapes though are, I think, one of the traditional motifs - the leech.

19th March 2007, 10:28 PM	#9
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Ben, thank you for your suggestion, I will do so for my future purchases, you're perfectly correct saying that before to buy one have to know more John, thank you very much I will look forward to see if you'll be able to find more