japanese sword ( genuine or fake ??? )

ferrylaki · 7th March 2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrylaki

dear all....
I have this ( katana ) since 5 months ago, but I have no idea whether it is a real katana or a fake one. I only have the blade with out any its fittings.
I really like to know any thing about this sword...26 inch edge and 8 inch handle.
thank you before,
best regards,
ferry

any body...?
please inform me if this is not etnograpic ...

ariel · 7th March 2007, 02:29 AM

It depends on your definition of " ethnographic"

the Japanese would not define it as such...
I think it is real and old. The patina is heavy, brown and uniform, not artificially-induced. Several holes indicate that the handle was changed at the very least once.
Nihonto afficionados would insist on full polish. That would put you back several hundred bucks. Last time I heard, it's ~ $60 per inch. If you are a Nihonto freak, you have no choice but to sell your firstborn and send the sword to Japan for an authentic polish. Also, as it is not signed, you would have to request the NHBTK ( or whatever it is called) examination and certificate: another $1,000 or so.... Then you will learn that there are some defects that prevent this sword to be regarded as a masterpiece. I made a firm decision not to collect Nihonto: too expensive, too high-brow, time consuming and... they just do not speak to me

The several I have, are ready to be swapped for Shashkas: that is what I call a beautiful sword!
To each his own

ferrylaki · 7th March 2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

It depends on your definition of " ethnographic"

the Japanese would not define it as such...
I think it is real and old. The patina is heavy, brown and uniform, not artificially-induced. Several holes indicate that the handle was changed at the very least once.
Nihonto afficionados would insist on full polish. That would put you back several hundred bucks. Last time I heard, it's ~ $60 per inch. If you are a Nihonto freak, you have no choice but to sell your firstborn and send the sword to Japan for an authentic polish. Also, as it is not signed, you would have to request the NHBTK ( or whatever it is called) examination and certificate: another $1,000 or so.... Then you will learn that there are some defects that prevent this sword to be regarded as a masterpiece. I made a firm decision not to collect Nihonto: too expensive, too high-brow, time consuming and... they just do not speak to me

The several I have, are ready to be swapped for Shashkas: that is what I call a beautiful sword!
To each his own

thank you very much ariel.
I send an email to Mr.Kenji Mishina in japan who is a sword polisher.
I also send him some photos of my sword. but he said that he cant find any jihada either hamon in my sword. he said this sword may be not good enough to be polish. he said this in a very polite language...I really thankfull for his comment.
I know its quite expensive to have asword polished, I might not have enouhg money to do so...

regards, ferry

ariel · 7th March 2007, 12:38 PM

Yup, that's what I meant....
Japanese swords demand perfection. All others can be patinated or cleaned, have battle scars, nicks on the edge, missing parts, scuffed leather, cracked handles etc and still look good.
A Japanese sword looks awful if it does not look perfect.

Andrew · 7th March 2007, 01:17 PM

To my inexpert eye, the ridge line and kissaki (tip) look soft and ill-defined. Not generally what one expects to find in "real" nihonto.

I hope someone with more experience than I with Japanese swords will come along and comment.

Rich? Carlo?

G. McCormack · 7th March 2007, 04:46 PM

If I had to guess without handling it, I would say this is an old nihon-to. One that has been shortened at least a few inches, cleaned harshly in the past with abrasives, rusted a bit more, cleaned again, and someone has drilled two incorrect small holes in the tang.
Of course, I could be way off base, but turning the top pic sideways it looks like a good profile. The lines are all distorted and the habaki has at the very least been sanded and buffed or something. The shortening job is odd too, not really careful. In fact, most of the lines look off. But, I'll go out on a limb and suggest it is an old one. Just my opinion.

Mark · 7th March 2007, 07:35 PM

I believe the hole positions look odd because the tang has ben shortened.

From what I hear, in the US Robert Benson is one of the best polishers. I cannot recommend him from personal experience, however, just suggest him by reputation. He ID'd my gunto (unsigned tang) to period & school, so I imagine he could tell you something about yours if you want to send it to him for evaluation. http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/

Am I wrong, or is it problematic to send nihon-to back to Japan? I thought they would be confiscated as contraband if not art swords (non-art swords are illegal in Japan), and confiscated as national treasures if they were. Great Catch-22 there.

7th March 2007, 02:29 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It depends on your definition of " ethnographic" the Japanese would not define it as such... I think it is real and old. The patina is heavy, brown and uniform, not artificially-induced. Several holes indicate that the handle was changed at the very least once. Nihonto afficionados would insist on full polish. That would put you back several hundred bucks. Last time I heard, it's ~ $60 per inch. If you are a Nihonto freak, you have no choice but to sell your firstborn and send the sword to Japan for an authentic polish. Also, as it is not signed, you would have to request the NHBTK ( or whatever it is called) examination and certificate: another $1,000 or so.... Then you will learn that there are some defects that prevent this sword to be regarded as a masterpiece. I made a firm decision not to collect Nihonto: too expensive, too high-brow, time consuming and... they just do not speak to me The several I have, are ready to be swapped for Shashkas: that is what I call a beautiful sword! To each his own

7th March 2007, 12:38 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yup, that's what I meant.... Japanese swords demand perfection. All others can be patinated or cleaned, have battle scars, nicks on the edge, missing parts, scuffed leather, cracked handles etc and still look good. A Japanese sword looks awful if it does not look perfect.

7th March 2007, 01:17 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	To my inexpert eye, the ridge line and kissaki (tip) look soft and ill-defined. Not generally what one expects to find in "real" nihonto. I hope someone with more experience than I with Japanese swords will come along and comment. Rich? Carlo?

7th March 2007, 04:46 PM	#6
G. McCormack Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 131	If I had to guess without handling it, I would say this is an old nihon-to. One that has been shortened at least a few inches, cleaned harshly in the past with abrasives, rusted a bit more, cleaned again, and someone has drilled two incorrect small holes in the tang. Of course, I could be way off base, but turning the top pic sideways it looks like a good profile. The lines are all distorted and the habaki has at the very least been sanded and buffed or something. The shortening job is odd too, not really careful. In fact, most of the lines look off. But, I'll go out on a limb and suggest it is an old one. Just my opinion.

7th March 2007, 07:35 PM	#7
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I believe the hole positions look odd because the tang has ben shortened. From what I hear, in the US Robert Benson is one of the best polishers. I cannot recommend him from personal experience, however, just suggest him by reputation. He ID'd my gunto (unsigned tang) to period & school, so I imagine he could tell you something about yours if you want to send it to him for evaluation. http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/ Am I wrong, or is it problematic to send nihon-to back to Japan? I thought they would be confiscated as contraband if not art swords (non-art swords are illegal in Japan), and confiscated as national treasures if they were. Great Catch-22 there.