What is it?

CharlesS · 22nd February 2005, 02:56 PM

I tend to agree that this is all European work, and also for me it's a gut thing. The hilt suggests only a similar style to the piso podang, but you really have to look for it...otherwise there are too many podang features missing. A podang hilt would more likely be decorated by engraving, or perhaps even gentle chieselling, but would keep its same basic form and characteristics...but this hilt is cast(!) into that shape. Certainly the scabbard does not suggest anything Batak. Surely can't rule it out...and I hate disagreeing with my "southern brutha from anotha mutha"(RSword), but for me this is just too European.

Rick · 22nd February 2005, 03:16 PM

If you magnify the hilt you can see what looks (to me) like a poorly executed casting . Also there is engraving , albeit minimal , on the faces of the hilt below the pommel cap .
Looks to me like a short sword blade re-hilted in S.E.A. in the European style , the casting looks like village work , not Euro munitions grade casting .

Conogre · 22nd February 2005, 11:15 PM

My first thought when I saw it was of one of the old Ethiopian "gladius" type swords....I sent one to Hal several years ago w/a brass hilt which ended up being Ethiopian, the first I'd heard of those from that area.
Mike

RSWORD · 23rd February 2005, 02:45 AM

Charles,

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with your Southern Brutha. After all, you say potato, I say tater.

I went back and had a second look at this thing and noticed a few other things about it. First, the seller is out of Indonesia. While one cannot conclude anything about a piece based on where it is currently located, that is an interesting thing. Why would a gladius hilted european sword be in Indonesia? Is this style of blade and hilt common of the Dutch? When looking at one of the pics where you have a good profile shot of the handle from a top view, the handle reminds me of a tulwar handle. The way the grip swells out on both sides, the cross guards and even the pommel cap are not unlike tulwar grips. The blade is also unlike blades I have seen on those gladius hilted european swords. This one has a deep wide fuller its full length whereas those european type swords tend to be more diamond shape in cross profile. The simple leather scabbard with seam is not unlike similar scabbards used to house tulwars. More food for thought?

Rick · 23rd February 2005, 03:07 AM

Considering the poor condition of the blade I think the scabbard style is a non issue in that it most likely is a replacement for the long lost original .

tom hyle · 24th February 2005, 01:39 AM

The hilt is not contoured like a tulwar hilt. A tulwar hilt is swelled in the middle, yes, and narrower at both ends, but it is (usually conspicuously) smalles at the top, such that the little finger can wrap around well. This hilt is fairly fat and round or nearly so at the butt, and the narrowest part is at the bottom, for the forefinger, which is an European feature, largely relating to control in their traditional thrusting methods.
You might note that I said artillery (etc.) gladius (etc.). The general uninlayed "tiffany" type (metal) hilt is not limitted to gladii, nor to the artillery, nor to military weapons, for that matter. In the simple cross guard and mushroom or sperish pommel it is not uncommon on yatagans and straight SE broadswords, as here, and is not unseen on sabres and smallswords, as well, of course, as gladius type blades, including occassional SE varients.
I noticed that part that looks engraved; looks different than the rest......
I don't really see the crudity, but then I can't magnify it; where's Spock when you need him?

22nd February 2005, 03:16 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	If you magnify the hilt you can see what looks (to me) like a poorly executed casting . Also there is engraving , albeit minimal , on the faces of the hilt below the pommel cap . Looks to me like a short sword blade re-hilted in S.E.A. in the European style , the casting looks like village work , not Euro munitions grade casting . Last edited by Rick; 22nd February 2005 at 03:28 PM.

22nd February 2005, 02:56 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I tend to agree that this is all European work, and also for me it's a gut thing. The hilt suggests only a similar style to the piso podang, but you really have to look for it...otherwise there are too many podang features missing. A podang hilt would more likely be decorated by engraving, or perhaps even gentle chieselling, but would keep its same basic form and characteristics...but this hilt is cast(!) into that shape. Certainly the scabbard does not suggest anything Batak. Surely can't rule it out...and I hate disagreeing with my "southern brutha from anotha mutha"(RSword), but for me this is just too European.

22nd February 2005, 11:15 PM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	My first thought when I saw it was of one of the old Ethiopian "gladius" type swords....I sent one to Hal several years ago w/a brass hilt which ended up being Ethiopian, the first I'd heard of those from that area. Mike

23rd February 2005, 02:45 AM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Charles, Nothing wrong with disagreeing with your Southern Brutha. After all, you say potato, I say tater. I went back and had a second look at this thing and noticed a few other things about it. First, the seller is out of Indonesia. While one cannot conclude anything about a piece based on where it is currently located, that is an interesting thing. Why would a gladius hilted european sword be in Indonesia? Is this style of blade and hilt common of the Dutch? When looking at one of the pics where you have a good profile shot of the handle from a top view, the handle reminds me of a tulwar handle. The way the grip swells out on both sides, the cross guards and even the pommel cap are not unlike tulwar grips. The blade is also unlike blades I have seen on those gladius hilted european swords. This one has a deep wide fuller its full length whereas those european type swords tend to be more diamond shape in cross profile. The simple leather scabbard with seam is not unlike similar scabbards used to house tulwars. More food for thought?

23rd February 2005, 03:07 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Considering the poor condition of the blade I think the scabbard style is a non issue in that it most likely is a replacement for the long lost original .

24th February 2005, 01:39 AM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The hilt is not contoured like a tulwar hilt. A tulwar hilt is swelled in the middle, yes, and narrower at both ends, but it is (usually conspicuously) smalles at the top, such that the little finger can wrap around well. This hilt is fairly fat and round or nearly so at the butt, and the narrowest part is at the bottom, for the forefinger, which is an European feature, largely relating to control in their traditional thrusting methods. You might note that I said artillery (etc.) gladius (etc.). The general uninlayed "tiffany" type (metal) hilt is not limitted to gladii, nor to the artillery, nor to military weapons, for that matter. In the simple cross guard and mushroom or sperish pommel it is not uncommon on yatagans and straight SE broadswords, as here, and is not unseen on sabres and smallswords, as well, of course, as gladius type blades, including occassional SE varients. I noticed that part that looks engraved; looks different than the rest...... I don't really see the crudity, but then I can't magnify it; where's Spock when you need him?