Choora-- Pesh Kabz-- Definition

Jim McDougall · 23rd February 2007, 02:56 AM

It is extremely interesting to review the terminology used in classifying weapons, especially the folklore, etymology and often 'urban legend' that produce the terms applied colloquially to many forms. Actually the term ch'hura does appear in the index of the original "Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms" by Lord Egerton (1880) , and it interestingly describes three knives with ivory handles fitting one into another (#380) as ch'hura. It would seem here that the term 'next' or 'another' might apply nicely (these are noted from Ulwar).
In the entry for #483, a dagger termed ch'hura kati is described as short straight blade with ivory hilt, and 'presented' by the Rajah of Vizianagram. This would suggest to me that the term may not be derisively used, at least in Hindu parlance.
It is unclear exactly how the term ch'hura, or choora as more commonly described, may be applied in northern regions, especially the Khyber regions where these are typically associated with the Mahsud (Stone, p.180).

Getting into the arcane terminology of European weapons, the so called 'ballock' knife worn by civilians in the 14th c. was worn on a lowslung belt in Low Countries, Germany and in Britain (where it became known as a 'dudgeon dagger' for the box-root often used for the hilts). These often hung between the thighs, and the phallic handle and dual rounded lobes obviously brought the colloquial term, 'ballock knife'. In Victorian times, the prudish collectors desperately attempted renaming these 'kidney daggers'.
(information from "The Lore of Arms", William Reid, 1976, p.49).

In studying weapons there are so many examples of transliteration, semantics, collectors terms (especially many coined during Victorian times) and local colloquialisms that one becomes extremely wary of relying on terms alone in weapon descriptions. The terms however often add colorful dimension to the study of these weapons, and there may well be considerable elements of fact involved in the lore surrounding the terms.

All the best,
Jim

Berkley · 23rd February 2007, 04:39 AM

Thanks for the reference to the ch’huri [plural] item 380, which I had overlooked. From the description, these “three knives” appear to have little similarity to the Mahsud knife “like the Persian peshkabz” pictured and named “Choora” (without citation) by Stone as his Fig. 227. I had noticed the “ Ch’hura-kati” 483 “dagger”, but its provenance from Vizianagram in southeastern India seems pretty remote from the Khyber area. As Artzi noted in an earlier post: “distribution [of the choora] is limited to the areas around the borders of today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan.” I understood this knife to be the subject of the anecdote regarding the Englishman in “the Afghanistan area” and the Afghan (Farsi? Pashto? One of many others? ) word for “ emasculated”. It may well be that Hindi or other Indian languages contain a similar word, albeit with a somewhat different meaning.

spiral · 23rd February 2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This would suggest to me that the term may not be derisively used, at least in Hindu parlance.
It is unclear exactly how the term ch'hura, or choora as more commonly described, may be applied in northern regions, especially the Khyber regions where these are typically associated with the Mahsud (Stone, p.180).
Jim

Wednesday, February 22, 2006, The Tribune, Chandigarh, India

"Ropar, February 21"

I"n violation of human rights the word “choora” (lower caste) was inscribed on the back of a 20-year-old Dalit undertrial, Narinder Singh, with hot metal and he was paraded naked allegedly by officials of the Nabha jail. The matter came to light today when Narinder, a resident of Balakalna village, near Morinda town, was produced before the Additional District and Sessions Judge, Mr S.K Goel, by his counsel this afternoon. "

Full stoy...

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/200...punjab1.htm#12

Nabna is of course in the Punjab, North west India which historicaly includid parts of what today is called Pakistan, { Which is on the Afghan border, after all.}

While I know newspapers are unrealiable in many of articles they print, one assumes they understsand thier own language & its uses.
Perhaps it also helps to remember off course the confusion words like Dear or deer in English can have. with thier various meanings.{But identicle prounounciations.

Perhaps this can also occur in the varios Afghan & Indian languages?

Spiral.

23rd February 2007, 04:39 AM	#2
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	You say ch'hura, I say choora Thanks for the reference to the ch’huri [plural] item 380, which I had overlooked. From the description, these “three knives” appear to have little similarity to the Mahsud knife “like the Persian peshkabz” pictured and named “Choora” (without citation) by Stone as his Fig. 227. I had noticed the “ Ch’hura-kati” 483 “dagger”, but its provenance from Vizianagram in southeastern India seems pretty remote from the Khyber area. As Artzi noted in an earlier post: “distribution [of the choora] is limited to the areas around the borders of today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan.” I understood this knife to be the subject of the anecdote regarding the Englishman in “the Afghanistan area” and the Afghan (Farsi? Pashto? One of many others? ) word for “ emasculated”. It may well be that Hindi or other Indian languages contain a similar word, albeit with a somewhat different meaning.

23rd February 2007, 02:56 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,299	It is extremely interesting to review the terminology used in classifying weapons, especially the folklore, etymology and often 'urban legend' that produce the terms applied colloquially to many forms. Actually the term ch'hura does appear in the index of the original "Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms" by Lord Egerton (1880) , and it interestingly describes three knives with ivory handles fitting one into another (#380) as ch'hura. It would seem here that the term 'next' or 'another' might apply nicely (these are noted from Ulwar). In the entry for #483, a dagger termed ch'hura kati is described as short straight blade with ivory hilt, and 'presented' by the Rajah of Vizianagram. This would suggest to me that the term may not be derisively used, at least in Hindu parlance. It is unclear exactly how the term ch'hura, or choora as more commonly described, may be applied in northern regions, especially the Khyber regions where these are typically associated with the Mahsud (Stone, p.180). Getting into the arcane terminology of European weapons, the so called 'ballock' knife worn by civilians in the 14th c. was worn on a lowslung belt in Low Countries, Germany and in Britain (where it became known as a 'dudgeon dagger' for the box-root often used for the hilts). These often hung between the thighs, and the phallic handle and dual rounded lobes obviously brought the colloquial term, 'ballock knife'. In Victorian times, the prudish collectors desperately attempted renaming these 'kidney daggers'. (information from "The Lore of Arms", William Reid, 1976, p.49). In studying weapons there are so many examples of transliteration, semantics, collectors terms (especially many coined during Victorian times) and local colloquialisms that one becomes extremely wary of relying on terms alone in weapon descriptions. The terms however often add colorful dimension to the study of these weapons, and there may well be considerable elements of fact involved in the lore surrounding the terms. All the best, Jim