Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form

Ian · 16th February 2007, 10:43 AM

Dan:

I was thinking of your example a few days ago in relation to this thread. The rounded "curly" forms of decoration are relatively uncommon on kampilan and your example is unique in my experience -- definitely old (at least early 20th C) and well executed hilt and guard. In some ways the rounded curls remind me as much of vines and leaves as waves.

The guard on yours does look bird-like. Perhaps an eagle or cockatoo.

Like many of Cato's descriptions, one wonders where the term came from. He does not document his sources, and without that documentation one is left wondering if much of his information could be confirmed. Frustrating.

Ian.

Bill M · 16th February 2007, 12:07 PM

Any ideas about this one? Has it been highly modified, or was it born this way?

Sometimes I wonder if pieces were worked on to sell to tourists or were they battle pieces that the owner just thought, "Hey, fix this grip so I can get a good hold on it and let me get back to fighting!"

I got a kris around here somewhere.....

Bill M · 16th February 2007, 12:24 PM

Rattan kris -- found it. Somehow this seems to fit with the kampilan. I can see some guy saying, "Blade is loose. I don't have a lot of time or money. FIX IT!"

I think that this kris and the kampilan make a nice pair.

Anyone else make up fantasy stories about your collection? While I am on this subject, does anyone seem to communicate with their weapons when you are cleaning and polishing them? I feel very much closer to them when I work on them.

Excuse me now, I am going to light some incense and a few candles . . . .

Tim Simmons · 16th February 2007, 05:03 PM

I think you all know I am not a man that cares for fantastic gobbledygook, truth is stranger than fiction. But I too find handling these objects a conduit to the past and a person in another land. When there is such a repair the objet almosts shouts back at you.

VANDOO · 16th February 2007, 11:03 PM

DAN
THAT WAS THE KAMPILIAN I WAS CONSIDERING TO REPRESENT THE SEA EAGLE. HERE ARE MY EXAMPLES OF A SEA EAGLE AND HAND OR PALM TREE HANDLE PLUS A NEWER ONE WITH A CROSSGAURD LIKE THE ONE AT THE START OF THE THREAD.

Spunjer · 17th February 2007, 12:19 AM

vandoo,

sorry but my camera decided not to work today, but yes, it's made out of bone and as for its age, it arrived here either may or june of 1900. prior to that, the original owner didn't mention in his diaries as to how old it is.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 17th February 2007, 05:07 AM

Vandoo, Yep that is definately along the same lines. Since in Islam you can't represent living beings in art they are always represented in an abstract way, kinda working the boundaries of what's allowed. For my money I'd have to go with the bird (it's just so common in all the artwork I've seen) or a fish another very important symbol to the people who live down there (mine could just as easily represent a parrot fish - common fish down there and good eating). You'll see the representation of spread feathers (much as the one hilt you have mentioned as palm tree) and on many items down there especially kites. As well I've noticed a not uncommomn tendendacy to abstractly represent fins (which in the abstract can easily be mistaken for spread feathers or waves. That said I never heard anyone down there mention waves when describing a piece with either abstract, doesn't mean it's not what the artist intended just passing on my limited exposure.

Dan

16th February 2007, 12:07 PM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Any ideas about this one? Has it been highly modified, or was it born this way? Sometimes I wonder if pieces were worked on to sell to tourists or were they battle pieces that the owner just thought, "Hey, fix this grip so I can get a good hold on it and let me get back to fighting!" I got a kris around here somewhere..... Attached Images

16th February 2007, 12:24 PM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Rattan kris -- found it. Somehow this seems to fit with the kampilan. I can see some guy saying, "Blade is loose. I don't have a lot of time or money. FIX IT!" I think that this kris and the kampilan make a nice pair. Anyone else make up fantasy stories about your collection? While I am on this subject, does anyone seem to communicate with their weapons when you are cleaning and polishing them? I feel very much closer to them when I work on them. Excuse me now, I am going to light some incense and a few candles . . . . Attached Images

16th February 2007, 11:03 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DAN THAT WAS THE KAMPILIAN I WAS CONSIDERING TO REPRESENT THE SEA EAGLE. HERE ARE MY EXAMPLES OF A SEA EAGLE AND HAND OR PALM TREE HANDLE PLUS A NEWER ONE WITH A CROSSGAURD LIKE THE ONE AT THE START OF THE THREAD. Attached Images

17th February 2007, 05:07 AM	#7
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Birds and fish Vandoo, Yep that is definately along the same lines. Since in Islam you can't represent living beings in art they are always represented in an abstract way, kinda working the boundaries of what's allowed. For my money I'd have to go with the bird (it's just so common in all the artwork I've seen) or a fish another very important symbol to the people who live down there (mine could just as easily represent a parrot fish - common fish down there and good eating). You'll see the representation of spread feathers (much as the one hilt you have mentioned as palm tree) and on many items down there especially kites. As well I've noticed a not uncommomn tendendacy to abstractly represent fins (which in the abstract can easily be mistaken for spread feathers or waves. That said I never heard anyone down there mention waves when describing a piece with either abstract, doesn't mean it's not what the artist intended just passing on my limited exposure. Dan

16th February 2007, 10:43 AM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Dan: I was thinking of your example a few days ago in relation to this thread. The rounded "curly" forms of decoration are relatively uncommon on kampilan and your example is unique in my experience -- definitely old (at least early 20th C) and well executed hilt and guard. In some ways the rounded curls remind me as much of vines and leaves as waves. The guard on yours does look bird-like. Perhaps an eagle or cockatoo. Like many of Cato's descriptions, one wonders where the term came from. He does not document his sources, and without that documentation one is left wondering if much of his information could be confirmed. Frustrating. Ian.

16th February 2007, 05:03 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I think you all know I am not a man that cares for fantastic gobbledygook, truth is stranger than fiction. But I too find handling these objects a conduit to the past and a person in another land. When there is such a repair the objet almosts shouts back at you.

17th February 2007, 12:19 AM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	vandoo, sorry but my camera decided not to work today, but yes, it's made out of bone and as for its age, it arrived here either may or june of 1900. prior to that, the original owner didn't mention in his diaries as to how old it is.