A Berber saber?

spiral · 15th February 2007, 11:46 PM

Ive seen such geometric nailed inlay work on butts of Algerian /Morrocan rifles.

Usualy done in ivory sometimes bone.

Looking at picture the inlay looks like dyed bone?

Spiral

spiral · 16th February 2007, 10:24 AM

I Just noticed in another current sword ID thread,

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4117

another fine example of the classic chequer booard pattern used in North Africa. {In this case amongst the leatherwork, on the lower wide piece.}

Spiral

TVV · 19th February 2007, 02:01 AM

A similar sword just ended on eBay. Note the leather sheath:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5620&rd=1&rd=1

FenrisWolf · 19th February 2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

A similar sword just ended on eBay. Note the leather sheath:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5620&rd=1&rd=1

Yeah, I tried for the second one (it was sold by the same dealer as the first one; I asked, but they had no idea of the provenance on the swords.

What with the consensus leaning away from the Middle East and towards SE Asia, I couldn't bring myself to bid as heavily this time and someone else bought it. Hopefully someone who frequents this borad so we can see better pics.

Tim Simmons · 19th February 2007, 07:42 AM

Great stuff!! North African. The scabbard really states it without any question. Well done. I want one.

FenrisWolf · 19th February 2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Great stuff!! North African. The scabbard really states it without any question. Well done. I want one.

So, I let the one with the definitive evidence slip thru my fingers? @#$%$##@$%^@!

Just for my edification, what was it about the scabbard that convinced you as to its provenance? I didn't see anything that couldn't just as easily have been made in the Phillipines, or Mexico for that matter.

Jim McDougall · 19th February 2007, 04:56 PM

OK, Rick! "Land of a Thousand Dances"!! boogalooo!!!

Anyway, I'm way confused here. How is a loosely compared scabbard the key identifying factor in observing a weapon? While it is true that leather scabbards are key in North African weapons, we beg to ask what an Indonesian style hilt is doing in North Africa. Certainly we have always recognized the vast scope of trade and the diffusion of weapons via those routes, however within certain cultural spheres the locally preferred hilt forms prevail, and would not likely develop multipally.

I know that I was drawn initially to North Africa as well, but I had not yet considered Indonesia as the weapons in that sphere were basically outside my field of study.

The scabbard on the Manding sword is diagonally geometric rather than checkerboard, and such geometrics are clearly widely used in many cultural spheres, so this comparison while interesting, I would still consider inconclusive.

As always! More research to be done

All the best,
Jim

P.S. I wish these could turn out to be Berber! That would vindicate my original suggestion and prove this old radar of mine was still in working order, and I too would be dancin'!!

Rick · 19th February 2007, 03:19 PM

Now I shall perform the dance of vindication .....

Thank you ....

15th February 2007, 11:46 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Ive seen such geometric nailed inlay work on butts of Algerian /Morrocan rifles. Usualy done in ivory sometimes bone. Looking at picture the inlay looks like dyed bone? Spiral

16th February 2007, 10:24 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I Just noticed in another current sword ID thread, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4117 another fine example of the classic chequer booard pattern used in North Africa. {In this case amongst the leatherwork, on the lower wide piece.} Spiral

19th February 2007, 02:01 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,719	A similar sword just ended on eBay. Note the leather sheath: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5620&rd=1&rd=1

19th February 2007, 07:42 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,902	Great stuff!! North African. The scabbard really states it without any question. Well done. I want one.

19th February 2007, 04:56 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,616	OK, Rick! "Land of a Thousand Dances"!! boogalooo!!! Anyway, I'm way confused here. How is a loosely compared scabbard the key identifying factor in observing a weapon? While it is true that leather scabbards are key in North African weapons, we beg to ask what an Indonesian style hilt is doing in North Africa. Certainly we have always recognized the vast scope of trade and the diffusion of weapons via those routes, however within certain cultural spheres the locally preferred hilt forms prevail, and would not likely develop multipally. I know that I was drawn initially to North Africa as well, but I had not yet considered Indonesia as the weapons in that sphere were basically outside my field of study. The scabbard on the Manding sword is diagonally geometric rather than checkerboard, and such geometrics are clearly widely used in many cultural spheres, so this comparison while interesting, I would still consider inconclusive. As always! More research to be done All the best, Jim P.S. I wish these could turn out to be Berber! That would vindicate my original suggestion and prove this old radar of mine was still in working order, and I too would be dancin'!!

19th February 2007, 03:19 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,369	Now I shall perform the dance of vindication ..... Thank you ....