Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 08:17 PM

A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN

WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2?

I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL.

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 08:31 PM

Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 09:21 PM

KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU.

THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT

NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 09:31 PM

I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 02:14 PM

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

LabanTayo · 14th February 2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

looks radioactive to me....thats kinda unusual.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 04:21 PM

ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...

13th February 2007, 08:17 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A NICE LOOKING KAMPILIAN WHEN I FIRST STARTED COLLECTING IN THE 1960'S I NEVER SAW A KAMPILIAN WOOD GAURD THAT WAS DIFFERENT ON THE ENDS. KAMPILIANS WERE NOT SEEN OFTEN AT GUN SHOWS OR OTHER PLACES DURING THOSE TIMES BUT KRIS AND BARONG AND TAALIBON/GUNONG WERE FAIRLY COMMON. THERE WERE VARIATIONS IN THE DESIGN OF THE CROSSGAURDS BUT THE ENDS WERE ALWAYS THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. I HAD NOT SEEN AN EXAMPLE OF THE FORM LIKE YOURS UNTILL EBAY CAME INTO BEING. SO PERHAPS THEY ARE A FORM FROM SOME AREA OR REGION NOT COMMONLY VISITED BY OUTSIDERS OR MORE LIKELY A MORE RECENT STYLE FORM. I HAVE NOT HANDLED A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THESE SO CAN'T JUDGE THEIR AGE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION LOOKING AT YOUR EXAMPLE PRE WW2 OR AFTER WW2? I THINK KAMPILIAN, KRIS, PANABAS AND BARONG PRODUCTION HAS NEVER STOPPED ENTIRELY AND HAVE SEEN PLENTY OF EXAMPLES THAT HAVE BEEN ANTIQUED TO LOOK OLD ,SOME VERY WELL MADE AND SOME OF LESSER WORKMANSHIP. SOMETIMES THE BLADE IS AN OLDER ONE WITH NEWER FITTINGS WHICH IS TO BE EXPECTED BUT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE WORKMANSHIP IS GOOD QUALITY AND TRADITIONAL. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 13th February 2007 at 08:29 PM.

13th February 2007, 08:31 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Very helpful post Barry, it is the right name I hope. Your post is clearly floral in decoration. The one Bill post is now clearly waves. Why is there such a distinction in design? I know little of this area except the general terms of Dayak and Sea Dayak which I suspect are rather collector/western terms even if there are communities that live by and from the sea.

13th February 2007, 09:21 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU. THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

13th February 2007, 09:31 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

14th February 2007, 02:14 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	. <<<==== is that unusual?

14th February 2007, 04:21 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...