Indo persian ? Arabic curved 'working' knife

Emanuel · 13th February 2007, 05:12 PM

Hi David and Jens,

I was also looking at this knife, and I found it very weird. The thing about the bank is that it has a reinforced spine to help in cutting. This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way?

Regards,
Emanuel

katana · 13th February 2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hi David and Jens,

This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way?

Regards,
Emanuel

Hi Emanuel,
I believe there is only one cutting edge....the 'inner' ....the outer edge has no chamfer of any kind....it is 'flat'. The only way to use this as a weapon would be to cut using the 'inner' blade. There isn't a point to speak of...that could be used for 'stabbing'. The extra photos I received from the seller suggests that the blade was of good quality.

Hi Jens, thankyou for the additional information.....appreciated

David

Jens Nordlunde · 13th February 2007, 09:46 PM

Hi David,

I had a hunch that it would be like you describe, and that would have been my next question – so you spared me one

.
I still think it is a bank, maybe a locally made one – but still a bank – any other suggestions?

I don't think it was made for stabbing, only for cutting.

Jens

Emanuel · 14th February 2007, 05:00 PM

Oops, I had missed the description of the spine and concave edge.

It still makes it an interesting looking bank.

Emanuel

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2007, 05:29 AM

In an interesting entry in Van Zonneveld ("Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, Leiden, 2001) a weapon similar to these is shown as a 'lawa ayam' and used in Sumatra and Java (p.82).

It is noted here that these were used in a stabbing upward fashion, and causing atrocious injuries, suggesting that a ripping type movement was implemented with the extremely curved blade.

Not a pleasant thought, but thought this might respond to the possible manner of use.

Best regards,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 15th February 2007, 09:55 AM

Well done Jim, could you, or anyone else who have the book, show us a picture of the knife?

Does the dagger you refer to have a mid rib, is it pointed, and does it have the same curve as the one Katana shows?

The half pommel on Katana’s dagger seems to be turning the wrong way, unless it was meant for support of the back of the hand when used in an upward cut. What bothers me a bit is the missing point on Katana’s dagger, as it would need to be pointed, should it be used as you describe. Of the two shown in post #4, I think only the one to the right could be used for an upward cut, as the one to the left seems to be too curved.

Robert · 15th February 2007, 01:57 PM

To me because of the way this knife is designed (with a rounded tip) the only way that I could see it being used as a weapon would be to sneak up behind someone slip it around the neck and with one quick pull......Ouch!!

Were any knives designed for this particular purpose?

Robert

13th February 2007, 09:46 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi David, I had a hunch that it would be like you describe, and that would have been my next question – so you spared me one. I still think it is a bank, maybe a locally made one – but still a bank – any other suggestions? I don't think it was made for stabbing, only for cutting. Jens

13th February 2007, 05:12 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi David and Jens, I was also looking at this knife, and I found it very weird. The thing about the bank is that it has a reinforced spine to help in cutting. This strange knife has a mid-rib and is double-edged, suggesting that it was used for stabbing, instead of cutting/slashing. Couldn't it just be a khanjar variant? Of course the handle makes stabbing like a khanjar awckward if not impossible...could it have been a replacement or a repair put the wrong way? Regards, Emanuel

14th February 2007, 05:00 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Oops, I had missed the description of the spine and concave edge. It still makes it an interesting looking bank. Emanuel

15th February 2007, 05:29 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,599	In an interesting entry in Van Zonneveld ("Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, Leiden, 2001) a weapon similar to these is shown as a 'lawa ayam' and used in Sumatra and Java (p.82). It is noted here that these were used in a stabbing upward fashion, and causing atrocious injuries, suggesting that a ripping type movement was implemented with the extremely curved blade. Not a pleasant thought, but thought this might respond to the possible manner of use. Best regards, Jim

15th February 2007, 09:55 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Well done Jim, could you, or anyone else who have the book, show us a picture of the knife? Does the dagger you refer to have a mid rib, is it pointed, and does it have the same curve as the one Katana shows? The half pommel on Katana’s dagger seems to be turning the wrong way, unless it was meant for support of the back of the hand when used in an upward cut. What bothers me a bit is the missing point on Katana’s dagger, as it would need to be pointed, should it be used as you describe. Of the two shown in post #4, I think only the one to the right could be used for an upward cut, as the one to the left seems to be too curved.

15th February 2007, 01:57 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	To me because of the way this knife is designed (with a rounded tip) the only way that I could see it being used as a weapon would be to sneak up behind someone slip it around the neck and with one quick pull......Ouch!! Were any knives designed for this particular purpose? Robert