Sword ID

Jim McDougall · 12th February 2007, 05:53 PM

I strongly doubt the battlefield attribution to this weapon, especially in the mounts which are distinctly Manding work from Mali, as has already been noted. It should be recalled that Mali was an extremely important Saharan center in trade, and it seems to me that there are profound connections there with the trade from Eastern Africa. It seems that the guardless mounts of the Omani kattara, which also used broadsword blades from Europe as found on the kaskara, seem to compellingly suggest association to the hilt of the Manding sabre. Oman of course maintained a Sultanate in Zanzibar, whose trade not only confluenced with international powers, but entered the African mainland to trans-Saharan caravan routes.

I believe that Omani kattaras carrying their traditional broadsword blades could certainly have diffused to Mali, where the blade may have been remounted in local fashion. Most of the Manding swords of course, carry European sabre blades. It is interesting to note that Omani kattara are also known to be mounted with sabre blades.

Best regards,
Jim

ABooth · 12th February 2007, 06:27 PM

Thank you for the helpful responses. As requested here are shots of the blade - one side and the other.

TVV · 13th February 2007, 03:42 AM

The blade profile is diffirent that the one on takoubas, but some of them were mounted with European broadsword blades, so I wonder if this could be a local imitation of such a broadsword blade? It looks like it was certainly locally made.

Jim McDougall · 14th February 2007, 03:33 AM

Hi TVV,
You're right about the use of European trade blades in takoubas, but it seems that takoubas invariably had rounded points, while this blade, distinctly heavier than most takouba blades, clearly has the kaskara spear point. I am inclined to think that since European blades were typically altered in that manner, they would have kept to that peculiarity.
Having noted that, I would rethink my comment suggesting that an Omani kattara may have been remounted in Mali, as the kattara tends to have a rounded tip in the examples I have seen, thus would not correspond with this blade.

I have always wondered how two broadsword forms such as the kaskara and takouba have remained distinctly separate forms, despite the well known diffusion of edged weapons throughout North Africa.

Best regards,
Jim

TVV · 14th February 2007, 03:45 AM

Jim,
You are as always absolutely correct that there are many differences between takoubas' blades and this one - not only the point, but also the blades on takoubas tend to taper towards the tip, while the edges on this one are parallel. I guess by method of elimination this may actually turn out to be a kaskara blade after all.
Regards,
Teodor

katana · 14th February 2007, 11:21 AM

Looking at the first pictures posted I had assumed that the blade was relatively thin. The 'point' had been noted....but thought that it had been 're-profiled'.
The blade 'close-ups' tell a different story. The blade is relatively thick.....IMHO of local manufacture....and with parallel edges and the 'point' ...as already stated ....seems to suggest a re-hilted Kaskara. The lack of the 'moon' stamps also, I feel, confirms that this is not Takouba.
I cannot tell whether the 3 'fullers' have been ground out or chiselled, enhanced pictures suggest that they were ground out with an angle grinder but I am no where near 'sure'.

The blade seems younger than its 100 years, but, there is the possiblity that the blade had been 'over hauled' (cleaned, it would lose all its patina) prior to 're-hilting'.

If the 'fullers' were formed by an angle grinder at the time this blade was first manufactured ......it would have been 'too young' to have been at Omdurman....

Still, nevertheless a very nice sword

ABooth · 14th February 2007, 02:59 PM

Many thanks to all for the input. I liked the decorations on the scabbard and on the hilt and found the possible place of origin very interesting. Again Thanks. ABooth

12th February 2007, 06:27 PM	#2
ABooth Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	Sword ID Thank you for the helpful responses. As requested here are shots of the blade - one side and the other. Attached Images

14th February 2007, 02:59 PM	#7
ABooth Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3	Sword ID Many thanks to all for the input. I liked the decorations on the scabbard and on the hilt and found the possible place of origin very interesting. Again Thanks. ABooth

12th February 2007, 05:53 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	I strongly doubt the battlefield attribution to this weapon, especially in the mounts which are distinctly Manding work from Mali, as has already been noted. It should be recalled that Mali was an extremely important Saharan center in trade, and it seems to me that there are profound connections there with the trade from Eastern Africa. It seems that the guardless mounts of the Omani kattara, which also used broadsword blades from Europe as found on the kaskara, seem to compellingly suggest association to the hilt of the Manding sabre. Oman of course maintained a Sultanate in Zanzibar, whose trade not only confluenced with international powers, but entered the African mainland to trans-Saharan caravan routes. I believe that Omani kattaras carrying their traditional broadsword blades could certainly have diffused to Mali, where the blade may have been remounted in local fashion. Most of the Manding swords of course, carry European sabre blades. It is interesting to note that Omani kattara are also known to be mounted with sabre blades. Best regards, Jim

13th February 2007, 03:42 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	The blade profile is diffirent that the one on takoubas, but some of them were mounted with European broadsword blades, so I wonder if this could be a local imitation of such a broadsword blade? It looks like it was certainly locally made.

14th February 2007, 03:33 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi TVV, You're right about the use of European trade blades in takoubas, but it seems that takoubas invariably had rounded points, while this blade, distinctly heavier than most takouba blades, clearly has the kaskara spear point. I am inclined to think that since European blades were typically altered in that manner, they would have kept to that peculiarity. Having noted that, I would rethink my comment suggesting that an Omani kattara may have been remounted in Mali, as the kattara tends to have a rounded tip in the examples I have seen, thus would not correspond with this blade. I have always wondered how two broadsword forms such as the kaskara and takouba have remained distinctly separate forms, despite the well known diffusion of edged weapons throughout North Africa. Best regards, Jim

14th February 2007, 03:45 AM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Jim, You are as always absolutely correct that there are many differences between takoubas' blades and this one - not only the point, but also the blades on takoubas tend to taper towards the tip, while the edges on this one are parallel. I guess by method of elimination this may actually turn out to be a kaskara blade after all. Regards, Teodor

14th February 2007, 11:21 AM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Looking at the first pictures posted I had assumed that the blade was relatively thin. The 'point' had been noted....but thought that it had been 're-profiled'. The blade 'close-ups' tell a different story. The blade is relatively thick.....IMHO of local manufacture....and with parallel edges and the 'point' ...as already stated ....seems to suggest a re-hilted Kaskara. The lack of the 'moon' stamps also, I feel, confirms that this is not Takouba. I cannot tell whether the 3 'fullers' have been ground out or chiselled, enhanced pictures suggest that they were ground out with an angle grinder but I am no where near 'sure'. The blade seems younger than its 100 years, but, there is the possiblity that the blade had been 'over hauled' (cleaned, it would lose all its patina) prior to 're-hilting'. If the 'fullers' were formed by an angle grinder at the time this blade was first manufactured ......it would have been 'too young' to have been at Omdurman.... Still, nevertheless a very nice sword