Museum Nusantara

David · 5th February 2007, 06:39 PM

Ben, i think if you carefully reread what both Mr. Maisey and myself are saying you will see that neither of us necessarily disbelieve that these events can and do occur, nor do either of us find any of these events particularly funny. My question was not whether or not these things happen. Rather i am trying to get at the nature of the power and study just why it might have a effect on some people and not on others. Still, it seems to me that you are making these powers out to be somewhat omnipotent. I personally believe that these powers can, in fact must, serve a higher source. And if, as you say, a keris doesn't like me and makes me sick (which would seem odd to me since i care for it and feed it, therefore maintaining it's life) i always have the power to break it in pieces and throw it in the river or feed it back to the forge. I believe i am in essence more powerful than the keris. Now, if a keris is being used as a tool of black magick by another person against me that is another issue that would require a different approach. Then i am not just battling the will of the keris (if infact it has any), but the will of the other person as well. He may, in fact, be more powerful than i, but not his keris.

Dajak · 5th February 2007, 07:50 PM

Hi David sorry for misunderstanding you but don t forget that the other person when he have an high keris that have been trough strong persons hands
that keris may have more power than you think ever heard about an blood keris

Ben

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2007, 10:26 PM

Ben, I said I would not be drawn into discussion of this matter, and I will not be.

Each of us is entitled to his own beliefs, and I totally endorse your right to your beliefs.

My own beliefs I have no intention of parading for public view, but these beliefs have been formed over a more than a 50 year period of association with Javanese society and culture. I have had close personal contact with Javanese society for 40 years; my wife of more than 30 years is from Jawa, similarly, my wife does have some paranormal powers and within a certain group of people is recognised as a medium and a distant viewer. I number amongst my close friends in Jawa three people who are recognised as empu, or pandai keris (although now retired), and I was Empu Suparman's student for many years.Additionally I know personally several people who are recognised dukuns. The elder brother of my housekeeper in Solo is able to transform himself into a tiger---at least in the eyes of other Javanese people.

Ben, I am buried up to the eyeballs in Javanese society, and Javanese paranormal belief.Upon this experience I have formed certain conclusions. I do not think I need to read any books about second hand experiences. I already have the first hand experiences.

But I will not discuss or debate any of this. We are all free to believe what we will.

Dajak · 6th February 2007, 04:27 AM

We Never to old to learn

Ben

A. G. Maisey · 6th February 2007, 07:09 AM

So true Ben, so very true.

Amuk Murugul · 6th February 2007, 08:31 AM

Punten...
Wilujeng sumadaya.

Hello everybody

Hmmmmm .... very interesting...

Ben, I guess you know then that hundreds of keris ( tourist or otherwise) are brought in to museums around the Netherlands by their owners who no longer feel comfortable having them.
BTW... have you read the novel De Stille Kracht?

Regarding paranormal/supernatural events .. aside from personal experience, I have had personal accounts from people as diverse as a Roman Catholic priest to a Muslim Kiyayi Haji. This does NOT ignore the many CHARLATANS.

Truth CAN be stranger than fiction.

However, the bottom line is: Everybody can believe what they like ...
in most cases anyway.

Regards.

Sampurna rasa ingsun.
Amit mundur ...

5th February 2007, 06:39 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Ben, i think if you carefully reread what both Mr. Maisey and myself are saying you will see that neither of us necessarily disbelieve that these events can and do occur, nor do either of us find any of these events particularly funny. My question was not whether or not these things happen. Rather i am trying to get at the nature of the power and study just why it might have a effect on some people and not on others. Still, it seems to me that you are making these powers out to be somewhat omnipotent. I personally believe that these powers can, in fact must, serve a higher source. And if, as you say, a keris doesn't like me and makes me sick (which would seem odd to me since i care for it and feed it, therefore maintaining it's life) i always have the power to break it in pieces and throw it in the river or feed it back to the forge. I believe i am in essence more powerful than the keris. Now, if a keris is being used as a tool of black magick by another person against me that is another issue that would require a different approach. Then i am not just battling the will of the keris (if infact it has any), but the will of the other person as well. He may, in fact, be more powerful than i, but not his keris.

5th February 2007, 07:50 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi David sorry for misunderstanding you but don t forget that the other person when he have an high keris that have been trough strong persons hands that keris may have more power than you think ever heard about an blood keris Ben

5th February 2007, 10:26 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Ben, I said I would not be drawn into discussion of this matter, and I will not be. Each of us is entitled to his own beliefs, and I totally endorse your right to your beliefs. My own beliefs I have no intention of parading for public view, but these beliefs have been formed over a more than a 50 year period of association with Javanese society and culture. I have had close personal contact with Javanese society for 40 years; my wife of more than 30 years is from Jawa, similarly, my wife does have some paranormal powers and within a certain group of people is recognised as a medium and a distant viewer. I number amongst my close friends in Jawa three people who are recognised as empu, or pandai keris (although now retired), and I was Empu Suparman's student for many years.Additionally I know personally several people who are recognised dukuns. The elder brother of my housekeeper in Solo is able to transform himself into a tiger---at least in the eyes of other Javanese people. Ben, I am buried up to the eyeballs in Javanese society, and Javanese paranormal belief.Upon this experience I have formed certain conclusions. I do not think I need to read any books about second hand experiences. I already have the first hand experiences. But I will not discuss or debate any of this. We are all free to believe what we will.

6th February 2007, 04:27 AM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	We Never to old to learn Ben

6th February 2007, 07:09 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	So true Ben, so very true.

6th February 2007, 08:31 AM	#6
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Punten... Wilujeng sumadaya. Hello everybody Hmmmmm .... very interesting... Ben, I guess you know then that hundreds of keris ( tourist or otherwise) are brought in to museums around the Netherlands by their owners who no longer feel comfortable having them. BTW... have you read the novel De Stille Kracht? Regarding paranormal/supernatural events .. aside from personal experience, I have had personal accounts from people as diverse as a Roman Catholic priest to a Muslim Kiyayi Haji. This does NOT ignore the many CHARLATANS. Truth CAN be stranger than fiction. However, the bottom line is: Everybody can believe what they like ... in most cases anyway. Regards. Sampurna rasa ingsun. Amit mundur ...