Chinese Jian sword

[BluErf]

Hi Bill,

If that is the name of your sword, it is really special!

I think the second word may have been mistyped. Should be:
饕餮

It's pronounced Tao1 Tie4 (1st intonation and 4th intonation respectively).

It's a mythical voracious beast that was used as a talisman to ward off evil in ancient China. And it so happened that there were a couple of examples in the San Xing Dui exhibition and I took photos of them.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi guys, with regards to posting #9, I have had many dealings with this seller that is referred to with both purchaces and questions over the years..I know his photos very well. I actually bought the sword in the second picture, a pre WWII dao. If anyone would like to see further images or know more about it feel free to request further postings from myself. I also have an old Chinese broadsword I would like to know more about. Bill Marsh, from seeing previous postings regarding jians, I am sure you could hit the nail on the head with both blades.

regards

Gav

[Bill M]

chuff bump

[Atlantia]

Nice one Bill you should be 'chuffed' LOL!

Any ideas on polishing my Dao then?

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hi Bill,

If that is the name of your sword, it is really special!

I think the second word may have been mistyped. Should be:
饕餮

It's pronounced Tao1 Tie4 (1st intonation and 4th intonation respectively).

It's a mythical voracious beast that was used as a talisman to ward off evil in ancient China. And it so happened that there were a couple of examples in the San Xing Dui exhibition and I took photos of them.

I have been going through my collection adding information while revisiting old friends. Would like to know more about 饕餮 . Could I get a more phonetic pronunciation? I think "Tao" is pronounced "Dow" . . . . . and, is the mythical (I hope) beast "Tie"? Perhaps "path of the beast"?

It is frustrating trying to translate subtle meanings and nuances from other languages into English, but I would like to be able to point visitors to my Jian (pictured above) and tell something of it's name (I like) and the beast described.

[KuKulzA28]

饕餮 is pronounced tāo tiè

so the first word the _āo is like the ou in "ouch", tāo in a neutral tone
and tiè, not like a bow-tie but tee-eh except all connected with the last eh sound having a "downwards" tone

Some folks like the numbers to indicate tone, others like the way I shown here...

like BluErf already mentioned, it's some mythical beast

Hope this helps.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

饕餮 is pronounced tāo tiè

so the first word the _āo is like the ou in "ouch", tāo in a neutral tone
and tiè, not like a bow-tie but tee-eh except all connected with the last eh sound having a "downwards" tone

Some folks like the numbers to indicate tone, others like the way I shown here...

like BluErf already mentioned, it's some mythical beast

Hope this helps.

Ah, so the T is pronounced as a hard T. I had heard Tao pronounced "Dow", but should be "tow" as in "ouch"?

It seems the "Tao" has something to do with your spiritual path.

So the phrase "TaoTiè" is this the name of the mythical beast? Or is it a phrase?

[KuKulzA28]

This 饕餮 is pronounced tāo tiè with T sounds.
It is the name of a mythical monster.

the "tao" you are referring to is more properly spelled as dào. Different methods, Wade-giles, pinyin, etc. have different spellings. This makes it much more confusing. The tao like in taoism is a D

Dào, or 道, is like Daoism (Taoism), direction, way, path, method, etc. It is pronounced with a D sound.

In Indonesia and Philippines, there is the name "kuntao" which is the Fujianese/Hokkien way of saying 拳道, or kun tao a.k.a. Quan Dao / Chuan Dow... which literally means "Fist Way" or "Boxing Method". Remember, tone makes all the difference, this is not the same dao as knife/saber. I think in normal Chinese grammar this (kuntao) is awkward as Dao implies a philosophy or spiritual way like in Daoism/Taoism. But perhaps the Hokkien in maritime SE Asia has changed somewhat from its Fujianese/Taiwanese roots. Or perhaps it's a local "bastardization"?? Also notice Aikido, or Taekwondo (Japanese & Korean which have linguistic similarities to Chinese)... the "do" seems to be used the same way kuntao uses "tao" - aka Way of the Fist or whatever... This makes it more confusing because different dialects of Chinese languages have their own sounds, and Mandarin is considered relatively simple, normally having only 4 tones. Cantonese and Taiwanese/Fujianese/Hokkien have 8+ I think....



I hope this helps you.
Speaking Mandarin as your 1st language is useful sometimes.

[yuanzhumin]

Hi Kukulza,

Well I have been away from the forum for a couple of months, but it's good to be back.

Just a little word to precise that the Cantonese has 6 tones (not 8), while the Hokkien/Taiwanese has 8 (the mandarin has 4 tones only, but its already complicate enough for me with these 4 : ))

Warm regards

yuanzhumin

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by yuanzhumin

Just a little word to precise that the Cantonese has 6 tones (not 8), while the Hokkien/Taiwanese has 8 (the mandarin has 4 tones only, but its already complicate enough for me with these 4 : ))

AH! Thanks for the correction. Figures I'd get Cantonese wrong - I don't speak it!

But yeah, Taiwanese 8 tones, Mandarin 4... I knew that. Speakin' of those two languages, I really need to start brushing up on my "native tongues"... it's getting neglected out here in America where I use English a LOT more... My Taiwanese is retarded and my Mandarin is mediocre now... I must also work on my literacy - just being able to speak and listen isn't good enough!