Vietnam or Cambodia?

Andrew · 3rd February 2007, 03:06 PM

Hi Dan. Good to hear from you.

That's a pretty cool sword. I'm always extremely skeptical of "excavated" swords. Both Mark and I have a number of heavily corroded swords, all of them suspiciously similar.

Your example, however, seems different, and your description of the others is very exciting. I have one example with a lotus bulb pommel and petal/leaf detailing at the ferrule nearly identical to yours. These features seem Thai to me, Ayutthaya period.

Let's see what the others have to say.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 3rd February 2007, 04:26 PM

Good to be back where I have some connectivity again.

The features seemed Thai to me also (especially the bell), but Thai swords don't have the small round guard and all of these had it invarying sizes. I have seen this on swords claiming to come from Laos and Cambobia, but had thought Vietmanese were more of a Chinese variant. All the others had the same even segmenting on the handle and none of them had any kind of pommel (appeared to have been made that way). The largest had about a 35% bend the last third of the handle (much like a Pira). Another distinct trait was that all the scabbards, save the one I puchased, tapered to the point also, definately not a trait I've seen in Thai or Burmese. Really wish I'd have brought the camera that day.

Dan

PUFF · 4th February 2007, 06:47 AM

A good example of Vietnamese 's sword 's "Pra-Seang-Dahb-Viet", a diplomatic item from Vietnamese 's ruler during king Rama 1st era (early 19th cent). The blade 's 4th one from the top.

PUFF · 4th February 2007, 06:50 AM

By the way, does your lotus ferrule have 12 petals ?

Andrew · 4th February 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

By the way, does your lotus ferrule have 12 petals ?

Don't tease us, Man!

What's the significance of this?

Andrew · 4th February 2007, 04:27 PM

Here's the one I mentioned above:

Puff, can you describe the the other three swords in that display you posted? What's the text say? Is that a double-edged "leaf" blade, like the one in the Royal regalia?

PUFF · 5th February 2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Don't tease us, Man!

What's the significance of this?

Calm down, my friend, I do not actually know the significance of the number. It 's just typical feature for many of old lotus-ferrule Dahb we have. There are hypothesis on this, of course.

The similar construct 's also occure in SEA religious architectures (something with Khmer 's believe). We have a lotus ferrule example with obvious 12-corner construct, similar to 12-corner Stupa. My hypothesis is that 12-petal lotus ferrule is an older form and lotus with more petals has been evolved over time. I just wonder if the same construct was found as far as Vietnam, where Chinese influence 's stronger than Khmer 's

This is another of example of the later lotus ferrule. The petals are 6+6 and there are only shallow 6 marks on its guard.IMO Dahb 's ferrule 's has been seriously evolved during mid-late Ayuthaya era.

-------------

And yes... those blades are royal's and one of them 's leaf-shape blade (recon. of a royal blade from Ayuthaya period).

3rd February 2007, 04:26 PM	#2
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Good to be back. Good to be back where I have some connectivity again. The features seemed Thai to me also (especially the bell), but Thai swords don't have the small round guard and all of these had it invarying sizes. I have seen this on swords claiming to come from Laos and Cambobia, but had thought Vietmanese were more of a Chinese variant. All the others had the same even segmenting on the handle and none of them had any kind of pommel (appeared to have been made that way). The largest had about a 35% bend the last third of the handle (much like a Pira). Another distinct trait was that all the scabbards, save the one I puchased, tapered to the point also, definately not a trait I've seen in Thai or Burmese. Really wish I'd have brought the camera that day. Dan

4th February 2007, 06:47 AM	#3
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	A good example of Vietnamese 's sword 's "Pra-Seang-Dahb-Viet", a diplomatic item from Vietnamese 's ruler during king Rama 1st era (early 19th cent). The blade 's 4th one from the top. Last edited by PUFF; 4th February 2007 at 12:28 PM.

3rd February 2007, 03:06 PM	#1
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi Dan. Good to hear from you. That's a pretty cool sword. I'm always extremely skeptical of "excavated" swords. Both Mark and I have a number of heavily corroded swords, all of them suspiciously similar. Your example, however, seems different, and your description of the others is very exciting. I have one example with a lotus bulb pommel and petal/leaf detailing at the ferrule nearly identical to yours. These features seem Thai to me, Ayutthaya period. Let's see what the others have to say.

4th February 2007, 06:50 AM	#4
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	By the way, does your lotus ferrule have 12 petals ?

4th February 2007, 04:27 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Here's the one I mentioned above: Puff, can you describe the the other three swords in that display you posted? What's the text say? Is that a double-edged "leaf" blade, like the one in the Royal regalia?