Museum Nusantara

[David]

Originally Posted by Dajak

if you have skype and you wanna know more I can tell you true story s that can be verified by people and books

I guess i don't have skype because i don't know what it is.
To be clear, i do not doubt the metaphysical aspects of the keris, it is what got me so interested to begin with. Metaphysics has been a study of mine much longer than the keris. I have learned over the years, however, to keep an open yet skeptical mind. Stories "verified" by people and books are still very subjective in nature. They do not display empirical fact. Events that seem very real to one person may in fact have alternative explanations. Stories are also embellished and exaggerated sometimes. It is just our human nature. This does not cause me to disbelieve, only to search further.
I remain even more skeptical of those who set themselves up as "paranormals" who are capable of sensing these powers within the keris when others cannot. If you can't feel and/or access this power yourself what possible good can it be to you? Within any culture with such a magickal/mystical world view as this the likelihood of chalatans taking advantage of hopeful people is magnified 100 times. How many of these "paranormals" will assess the "power" of your keris for free? Again, i don't say this because i doubt the existence of such power. It is just that there will always be individuals ready and willing to take advantage of such belief.
Ben, if you have stories i would encourage you to share them here. That was my purpose in raising these questions, to bring them into a community discussion. I see no reason to swap such stories in private emails.
Frankly, to me the reported powers of the keris seem a bit all over the board. I have a feeling that the original intention was something far more specific. In any discussion of the metaphysical there is bound to be superstition and fairytales thrown into the mix. Some stories i believe are merely legend, other's rooted more in fact. If indeed there are or were keris capable of lifting a bulldozer for instance one would have to wonder just how the Dutch managed to actually take control of the area with mere guns and cannons.
The way you describe this magickal relationship Ben it seems really hard to understand it within the context of a strictly Islamic society (albeit one that has kept and incorporated remnants of it animistic past). But how does making deals with enities within a keris for material favors sit with Allah and one's faith in Islam? As you say, it sounds like black magick to me. I don't think this was the original intent of the spiritual nature of the keris.

[rasdan]

Originally Posted by David

Some stories i believe are merely legend, other's rooted more in fact. If indeed there are or were keris capable of lifting a bulldozer for instance one would have to wonder just how the Dutch managed to actually take control of the area with mere guns and cannons.

Bulldozers story is true. But very rare and theres something about these creatures that it wont help you when you are dying like when a foreigner points a canon at you . Their objective is only to make trouble. Their service is just a disguise. When u got trouble and dies or gets the country colonised (anything bad) the objective is achieved. Thats why im not interested in them. Im not trying to get your attention nechesh, i know u want to know.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by rasdan

Im not trying to get your attention nechesh, i know u wnat to know and .... hehehe

Sounds to me like you are and you're razzing him about it .

[rasdan]

Opps sorry rick. I edited the comment earlier and i didnt realise i didnt delete the word "and". Probably makes my comments sounds razzing. Sorry.. Deleted already.

[Rick]

Thanks Rasdan .

Best,
Rick

[rasdan]

You're welcome Rick..

[Dajak]

Hi David you might be better reading some books about the subject
there is more than only Islam or Christian things hard to understand if you never get in to it that why I don t write a lot about what happend to me and others.

If you use magic for good things it is white magic if you use it for bad things black magic.

Even in the Islam there is something like the devil


Ben

[David]

Originally Posted by rasdan

Their objective is only to make trouble. Their service is just a disguise.

Sorry Rasdan, but i am afraid that many people might make serious objection to these comments. Are you really saying that what lies at the spiritual heart of the keris, the power and entity that is embued into it by the empu at the time of forging, the life of the blade, is only there to make trouble?