Dahb Thai, Japanese swords and hybrids

PUFF · 1st February 2007, 04:06 AM

Lanna Dahbs, in their scabbards.

Smiths migration 's, indeed, interesting. In previous meeting ago, we learned that there are steel tools (and weapons) making around Ayuthaya city center. During the 2nd sack of Ayuthaya, many smiths were ported to Burmese 's city. And some were killed. In the early Rattanakosin, during king Rama 2nd era, there were immigration of Lao 's smiths (gold, silver and steel). They settled down in the Ayuthaya area (which was an old city by then

). In the early of 20th cent., their steel products were dominant in the market as Aranyik 's product. In fact, Aranyik 's the name of a market/hub village where these people sold their products, the manufactoring place is PaiNong village

. Some were sold in Bangkok many were exported as far as Lao and Vietnam (some of us found them during search for Lao or Vietnam 's local sword). And, by now, Aranyik 's Lao sword design turned to be recognized as Dahb Thai.

Similar thing happened in Burman side, Ayuthaya (Yodia, in Burmese term) smiths made long hilt Dha which, today, can be found around Mandalay.

Lanna and southern Lanna smiths has a different story. As far as I know, Chiang Mai do not has its own sword making community (sounds odd, I need to do more research in this are). Many Dha, Dahb were imported from nearby cities, used to be Tai Shan cities (on Burman side) and LamPang (~100 miles south of ChiangMai). Not long ago, just after WWII, LamPang guilds got a huge order of Dahb Thai from Bangkok, which actually is Aranyik (Lao) style. Today, they still making both traditional Lanna and Aranyik 's Dahb Thai sword. There 's another sword making community in Utaradit, near an infamouse Nam-Pi iron ore deposite. But I think they got "infected" by Aranyik style by now.

Indeed, there were some smiths in the rural area which were not captured during the Ayuthaya 's 2nd sack. But they do not make weapons as a primary job. And, since king Rama 3rd, there were immigration of the Chinese. They come with chinese technique and go into the business. Scattered Siamese smiths gave up their business and ,so far, I could not find a single Siamese sword maker in my area.

RhysMichael · 2nd February 2007, 12:01 AM

A great discussion and I am learning a great deal as always from reading these. I would love to actually come to one of the lectures oneday. Thank you for sharing

Can you tell me more about this sword

It is in with dha but if not for that I would have called it a parang with a naga hilt. I had not seen one with a guard before but otherwise it looks Indonesian not Thai to me.

And this one seems to resemble hairpin folding seen on swords from parts of China and Tibet

PUFF · 2nd February 2007, 05:04 AM

I do agree with you that the piece shouldn't be classified as Dahb. But it 's not unique to the island part. Parang style weapons are also exist in mainland Malaya peninsular too. This one is a good example

The forge-weld blade 's made in wakisashi profile (3rd blade from top of this rack). It 's made with keris/badik technique. There is a document that in the 19th cent., similar blades were made and the Siamese king sent "keris-patterned Japanese sword" out as a diplomatic item.

RhysMichael · 2nd February 2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PUFF

I do agree with you that the piece shouldn't be classified as Dahb. But it 's not unique to the island part. Parang style weapons are also exist in mainland Malaya peninsular too. This one is a good example

The forge-weld blade 's made in wakisashi profile (3rd blade from top of this rack). It 's made with keris/badik technique. There is a document that in the 19th cent., similar blades were made and the Siamese king sent "keris-patterned Japanese sword" out as a diplomatic item.

I knew there were Thai keris so it makes sense there are Thai parang type weapons I just never had seen or even considered it myself. Do you know of many other thai swords with the naga style hilt ?

As to the forge welding, I love the many varied styles of forge welding. I would like to see more of the "keris patterned" Thai made swords and see if they have more of a pamor look or more of the hairpin folding look of these.

Again Thanks

Mark · 2nd February 2007, 04:23 PM

I'll try and get a photo of the pattern-welded Thai "katana" at the Smithsonian. Its a beautiful sword.

RhysMichael · 2nd February 2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

I'll try and get a photo of the pattern-welded Thai "katana" at the Smithsonian. Its a beautiful sword.

If you have time that would be great, thanks

wilked aka Khun Deng · 3rd February 2007, 05:24 AM

Puff you are treasure all by yourself and I'm kicking myself for not contacting you as I was in Bangkok for the last three weeks and would have given much to have attended that seminar. You are confirming and adding to much of what I have already learned. (especially liked the "Don't Touch" sign in the photos

Thanks

Rhys, the parang was not an unusual weapon to central Thailand nor was the keris. They were in use by officers in the royal court, at least if information and the examples at the arms room of the Royal palace is correct.

Dan

2nd February 2007, 12:01 AM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	A great discussion and I am learning a great deal as always from reading these. I would love to actually come to one of the lectures oneday. Thank you for sharing Can you tell me more about this sword It is in with dha but if not for that I would have called it a parang with a naga hilt. I had not seen one with a guard before but otherwise it looks Indonesian not Thai to me. And this one seems to resemble hairpin folding seen on swords from parts of China and Tibet Last edited by RhysMichael; 2nd February 2007 at 12:18 AM.

1st February 2007, 04:06 AM	#1
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Lanna Dahbs, in their scabbards. Smiths migration 's, indeed, interesting. In previous meeting ago, we learned that there are steel tools (and weapons) making around Ayuthaya city center. During the 2nd sack of Ayuthaya, many smiths were ported to Burmese 's city. And some were killed. In the early Rattanakosin, during king Rama 2nd era, there were immigration of Lao 's smiths (gold, silver and steel). They settled down in the Ayuthaya area (which was an old city by then ). In the early of 20th cent., their steel products were dominant in the market as Aranyik 's product. In fact, Aranyik 's the name of a market/hub village where these people sold their products, the manufactoring place is PaiNong village . Some were sold in Bangkok many were exported as far as Lao and Vietnam (some of us found them during search for Lao or Vietnam 's local sword). And, by now, Aranyik 's Lao sword design turned to be recognized as Dahb Thai. Similar thing happened in Burman side, Ayuthaya (Yodia, in Burmese term) smiths made long hilt Dha which, today, can be found around Mandalay. Lanna and southern Lanna smiths has a different story. As far as I know, Chiang Mai do not has its own sword making community (sounds odd, I need to do more research in this are). Many Dha, Dahb were imported from nearby cities, used to be Tai Shan cities (on Burman side) and LamPang (~100 miles south of ChiangMai). Not long ago, just after WWII, LamPang guilds got a huge order of Dahb Thai from Bangkok, which actually is Aranyik (Lao) style. Today, they still making both traditional Lanna and Aranyik 's Dahb Thai sword. There 's another sword making community in Utaradit, near an infamouse Nam-Pi iron ore deposite. But I think they got "infected" by Aranyik style by now. Indeed, there were some smiths in the rural area which were not captured during the Ayuthaya 's 2nd sack. But they do not make weapons as a primary job. And, since king Rama 3rd, there were immigration of the Chinese. They come with chinese technique and go into the business. Scattered Siamese smiths gave up their business and ,so far, I could not find a single Siamese sword maker in my area.

2nd February 2007, 05:04 AM	#3
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	I do agree with you that the piece shouldn't be classified as Dahb. But it 's not unique to the island part. Parang style weapons are also exist in mainland Malaya peninsular too. This one is a good example The forge-weld blade 's made in wakisashi profile (3rd blade from top of this rack). It 's made with keris/badik technique. There is a document that in the 19th cent., similar blades were made and the Siamese king sent "keris-patterned Japanese sword" out as a diplomatic item.

2nd February 2007, 04:23 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I'll try and get a photo of the pattern-welded Thai "katana" at the Smithsonian. Its a beautiful sword.

3rd February 2007, 05:24 AM	#7
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Puff you are treasure all by yourself and I'm kicking myself for not contacting you as I was in Bangkok for the last three weeks and would have given much to have attended that seminar. You are confirming and adding to much of what I have already learned. (especially liked the "Don't Touch" sign in the photos Thanks Rhys, the parang was not an unusual weapon to central Thailand nor was the keris. They were in use by officers in the royal court, at least if information and the examples at the arms room of the Royal palace is correct. Dan