Blades and horseshoes??!!

[Paul Digard]

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

The only way to strengthen the metal is in the forging process, so unless the horses are running around with red-hot shoes, I don't see how that could work.

I'm on shaky ground here (the last time I studied metallurgy was 15 years ago and undergraduate classes were even further back!) but at least some metals will work harden when cold. Silver and copper do for sure and I'm 99% sure it applies to ferrous metals too. Think of how you can snap a metal wire by bending and straightening it repeatedly. It's to do with imperfections in the crystalline packing migrating when the metal is deformed - the metal gets more resistant to deformation but also more brittle.

Having said that, I fully agree that the horseshoes to swords thing sounds apocryphal!

Paul

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Michal,

Yes old horseshoes, nails and used iron pieces were mixed with other kinds of iron, when forging blades. I don’t remember where I read it; it could be in Persian Steel by James Allan and Brian Gilmour. But i have never heard about 'natural forging'.

Jens

[HUSAR]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Michal,

Yes old horseshoes, nails and used iron pieces were mixed with other kinds of iron, when forging blades. I don’t remember where I read it; it could be in Persian Steel by James Allan and Brian Gilmour. But i have never heard about 'natural forging'.

Jens

HI Michal
I agree with Jens, I also read somewhere that many different types of iron (including horseshoes) was used in swords production , I do not really believe that horse could forge a horseshoe to hussar blade quality but on the other hand... not all swords are made of the the hard steel while some have though core coated with softer iron....
Best
Damian

[wolviex]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Michal,

Yes old horseshoes, nails and used iron pieces were mixed with other kinds of iron, when forging blades. I don’t remember where I read it; it could be in Persian Steel by James Allan and Brian Gilmour. But i have never heard about 'natural forging'.

Jens

Dear Jens!
Well, I'm not surprise at all, it is obvious of using different iron objects and reforge them into different piece.
But the statement written in the book sounds like they used especially and only horseshoes for hussars sabres blades - what imo sounds like some kind of misunderstanding.
Anyway I'm waiting for other voices too. Thank you all for your opinions!

[Pukka Bundook]

Any pounding and compacting of the iron shoe produced by the horse, would be compltely lost anyway, in the forging process.

You hear the same thing, re. stub-iron twist gun barrels, (barrels made from horseshoe nail stubs)...........The pounding makes a purer product therefore a higher quality barrel.
as above, lost in forging process,..... but a good source for nice pure iron!

[fernando]

Horse shoes for swords, certainly not a myth.
One of the most famous resources for gun barrels in ( at least ) the 18th century, was the forging of horse shoes. Not that they forged while being used, but certainly in later treatment.
The experts can expand about this.It is written in many works.
fernando

[Jeff D]

Hi Michal,

I have read somewhere that repeatedly working the iron will make it harder that is why horseshoes and nails where often used in many cultures. I will try to find the references tonight when i have time.
I have no first hand knowledge about making knives/swords but I have observed that the second half of a horseshoe wears much slower than the first.

Hope this helps.
Jeff

[Pukka Bundook]

Hi Fernando,
I wasn't saying the use of horseshoes or nails was a myth, just that any wonderful properties added by the horse pounding the iron would be lost in the forging.
William Fullard, the best barrel-maker in London in early 19th Century used horseshoe nail stubs almost exclsively. ( poor folks made a poor living by gathering them along the great london road!)
I'm sure swordsmiths would compete for this source of pure (at that time) iron!
Best wishes,
Richard.