Help with Arabic/Farsi translations?

[Rick]

Hi Fenris,

Pictures taken without flash would make it much easier to read the script; try shooting outside on a bright overcast day.

Your first piece has a handle that resembles a Bichaq's ; the second piece does, as you say, look like its intentions are less than savory; well put.

Welcome!

Rick

[TVV]

I cannot help with the inscription, but the first one looks like coming out of Trebizond - there were a few threads on daggers from this area.
Teodor

[FenrisWolf]

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Fenris,

Pictures taken without flash would make it much easier to read the script; try shooting outside on a bright overcast day.

Your first piece has a handle that resembles a Bichaq's ; the second piece does, as you say, look like its intentions are less than savory; well put.

Welcome!

Rick

Hi, Rick! Thanks for the welcome to the board, and the suggestion for retaking the photos. I'll give it a shot and see what turns out. Question; given the condition of the blade, does the apparent date make sense? I'd love to believe that this actually dates to the 1500s, but just can't reconcile that much age with the more or less pristine condition of the blade.

Fenris

[ham]

This dagger is certainly Eastern Turkish, probably from the Black Sea region as noted above.
There are a number of forum members who will be happy to read the inscription for you-- speaking strictly for myself I would ask that the photos be closeups and very clear, as the characters can be easily misunderstood if the detail is not precise.

Dating-- these are typically late 19th or early 20th century. Given the photos I can see no reason to suggest that this one dates any earlier.

Ham

[FenrisWolf]

Originally Posted by ham

This dagger is certainly Eastern Turkish, probably from the Black Sea region as noted above.
There are a number of forum members who will be happy to read the inscription for you-- speaking strictly for myself I would ask that the photos be closeups and very clear, as the characters can be easily misunderstood if the detail is not precise.

Dating-- these are typically late 19th or early 20th century. Given the photos I can see no reason to suggest that this one dates any earlier.

Ham

Thanks! I tried retaking the pics, but Murphy as usual is giving me his undivided attention. In a city infamous for its unrelenting sunny days, today is dark, cloudy and rainy, enough so that even in the open a flash is necessary. I'll try again tomorrow.

Re the date: that's really what I suspected. If the blade showed more age I might be more inclined to accept that the '935' in one inscription referred to the date, but it's just too crisp and clean to support a much older provenance. The wear and tear on the wood hilt is definitely much more in keeping with something from the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Regardless, it's a sweet little dagger and I paid less than $100.00 for it, so I'm not complaining!

Fenris

[FenrisWolf]

I managed to get decent pics of the inscriptions:





You can see what I thought was a date at the left of the second one. Thanks in advance for help with this!

Fenris

[Zifir]

I agree with Jeff that the date is probably 1933 since I could not see any arabic date on the inscription. In the second picture at the bottom there is a
C. 88 (if I am correct, but I have no idea what it means or why the knifemaker chose to wrote it in half latin and half arabic) I will try to give a meaningful translation of the first inscription later but the knife was made in Erzincan (or Arzincan if you wish) a city in eastern Anatolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzincan

Thus the second picture is

933
Erzincan
--------
Yadigar (souvenir)
C.88
the knifemaker's signature

[FenrisWolf]

Originally Posted by Zifir

I agree with Jeff that the date is probably 1933 since I could not see any arabic date on the inscription. In the second picture at the bottom there is a
C. 88 (if I am correct, but I have no idea what it means or why the knifemaker chose to wrote it in half latin and half arabic) I will try to give a meaningful translation of the first inscription later but the knife was made in Erzincan (or Arzincan if you wish) a city in eastern Anatolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzincan

Thus the second picture is

933
Erzincan
--------
Yadigar (souvenir)
C.88
the knifemaker's signature

Thanks for the translation! I've owned this dagger for several years and tried repeatedly to find someone who could give me an accurate translation of the inscription, to no avail. When I look at the workmanship it's hard to wrap my mind around calling it a 'souvenir', but then I'm used to selling 'gen-yew-wine Arizona soo-vee-neers' that were cranked out in China in the Walgreens where I work. Having a souvenir that's actually a work or art takes getting used to!

I get the feeling I'm going to be spending a lot of time on this board. I have always loved the look and feel of a well-forged blade; holding something that has served as both a work of art and the thin edge between life and death for someone generates a visceral response.

For me, also, the evolution of weaponry is the evolution of man's society in microcosm. Nothing drives technology forward faster than warfare, and nothing displays the cutting edge of that technology like the weapons man weilds in defense of that society. It's a belief that makes a lot of people in this PC world we live in uncomfortable, but perhaps I'll find a few likeminded individuals here.

Thanks again for your help, I'm looking forward to the other translation!

Fenris

PS -- if any of you saw something like this for sale at that upcoming show in Boston, what sort of price would you expect to see? I'mj ust curious how good a buy I made!

[Jeff D]

Hi Fenris,

I think I see the numbers 933. The Turks had converted to our calendar in the late 19th century. I think this date is in fact 1933 C.E. .

Hope this helps.
Jeff