Very Interesting Indian sword for discussion

RSWORD · 19th February 2005, 03:42 AM

Well, after some additional digging I found one similar hilt example but it raises more questions than it answers. In Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes de Charles Buttin on Planche XXXIII figure 789 there is pictured a sword with the same hilt but with a very English looking guard. The grip has the same swell and if you look close enough, it has the same type of pommel. I do not read French so I am unsure what the description states exactly but it does say "Epee Anglo-Hindoue". Apparently it has an European straight blade mounted up on this Hindu/English combination hilt. A most peculiar sword but very interesting given its grip similarity to my example. So, any other examples out there? Jens, Jim, Brian, Jeff? Any thoughts?

Jeff D · 19th February 2005, 03:47 AM

Hi Rick,

Very nice saber. In the photos it looks as if the quillions and guard are welded on. They also don't seem to follow the flow of the rest of the hilt. perhaps they are a later add on? Could you post a closer picture of the quillion and guard?

Thanks
Jeff

Jeff D · 19th February 2005, 04:21 AM

Hi again,

If you have Egerton, in his section of arms of North-Western India Plate XIII item 653 is a similar hilt which is what I suspect your hilt started as. The guard is also similar. it will be nice to hear other opinions.

All tyhe best
Jeff

Conogre · 19th February 2005, 04:57 AM

I've refrained from commenting as it seems inapropriate when all one can do is gush over a piece, but......well, gush!
Beautiful!

tom hyle · 19th February 2005, 06:36 AM

Ordinarily, each quillon has a sort of tang, and these are welded or soldered in between the two halves of the hilt.

RSWORD · 19th February 2005, 03:20 PM

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reference to Egerton. Yes, the quillons and guard are welded on but I do not believe they are later additions. The gold koftari on both match the grip quite well both in decoration and patina. It is interesting that the example I found in Buttin and the example you found in Egerton have the same grip but different guards and/or quillon. However, I was doing more digging through my references and ran across another example. This one has the exact same hilt but with shamshir blade. It is from an art musuem display from the 1970's. The only description they give for the sword is Mughal sword, 18th century. Here is the pic of the example

Jeff D · 19th February 2005, 04:15 PM

Hi Rick

Well, you certainly do have a mystery. On both pieces shown, the quillions appear welded on. Why? They are both very well made, certainly the smith was capable of making it from a single block, or masking the weld. I will see if I can find any more examples.

Jeff

19th February 2005, 03:20 PM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,094	Hi Jeff, Thanks for the reference to Egerton. Yes, the quillons and guard are welded on but I do not believe they are later additions. The gold koftari on both match the grip quite well both in decoration and patina. It is interesting that the example I found in Buttin and the example you found in Egerton have the same grip but different guards and/or quillon. However, I was doing more digging through my references and ran across another example. This one has the exact same hilt but with shamshir blade. It is from an art musuem display from the 1970's. The only description they give for the sword is Mughal sword, 18th century. Here is the pic of the example Attached Images

19th February 2005, 03:42 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,094	Well, after some additional digging I found one similar hilt example but it raises more questions than it answers. In Catalogue De La Collection D'Armes Anciennes de Charles Buttin on Planche XXXIII figure 789 there is pictured a sword with the same hilt but with a very English looking guard. The grip has the same swell and if you look close enough, it has the same type of pommel. I do not read French so I am unsure what the description states exactly but it does say "Epee Anglo-Hindoue". Apparently it has an European straight blade mounted up on this Hindu/English combination hilt. A most peculiar sword but very interesting given its grip similarity to my example. So, any other examples out there? Jens, Jim, Brian, Jeff? Any thoughts?

19th February 2005, 03:47 AM	#2
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Rick, Very nice saber. In the photos it looks as if the quillions and guard are welded on. They also don't seem to follow the flow of the rest of the hilt. perhaps they are a later add on? Could you post a closer picture of the quillion and guard? Thanks Jeff

19th February 2005, 04:21 AM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi again, If you have Egerton, in his section of arms of North-Western India Plate XIII item 653 is a similar hilt which is what I suspect your hilt started as. The guard is also similar. it will be nice to hear other opinions. All tyhe best Jeff

19th February 2005, 04:57 AM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I've refrained from commenting as it seems inapropriate when all one can do is gush over a piece, but......well, gush! Beautiful!

19th February 2005, 06:36 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Ordinarily, each quillon has a sort of tang, and these are welded or soldered in between the two halves of the hilt.

19th February 2005, 04:15 PM	#7
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Hi Rick Well, you certainly do have a mystery. On both pieces shown, the quillions appear welded on. Why? They are both very well made, certainly the smith was capable of making it from a single block, or masking the weld. I will see if I can find any more examples. Jeff