Bolo with wide blade and t-grip for identification

engar · 18th February 2005, 08:57 PM

Perhaps Engar could be persuaded to ask the museum officials if they have any additional information the next time he visits?
The next week

It´s true that exist a very big difference between catalogation in Museo del Ejercito and Museo Antropologico. The Museo del Ejercito have a very bad catalogation, may be they don´t have any person specialized on PI weaponry but not in Museo Antropologico. But I´m not and expert but it looks like they have no idea about PI weaponry. Anyway they mix weapons from different countries in the same "shield" but always you find very clear the info on the poster (not always correct info, LOL).

A connection to Spanish America is something I have thought since I first saw these bolos. There was certainly extensive trade between the Philippines and Spanish America, especially Mexico. Indeed, several of the Governors of the Philippines during the Spanish period came from Mexico.
Philippines Government depends on Mejico Government during long time.

Excuse my interference on the thread.

Ian · 18th February 2005, 09:23 PM

You are not intruding at all. You have actually helped us a lot in our discussions here. I am most grateful for the pictures you have posted. These are very helpful. Please do add your thoughts and comments here also.

Ian.

Conogre · 18th February 2005, 09:40 PM

Ouch, ouch ouch!**grin**
Points taken, Ian, although if you look closely at "the sword" on the right in this picture:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2214.jpg
I think you'll see that appear to me to be tha same diamond shaped cut outs as are present in the sword I have.
I too saw the saw the khoumiyas and was hesitant to say anything because of that alone, although I do have to admit to being swayed and a little excited (who, me? **grin**) when I saw the 2nd two peaces.
I also see your points in regards to the obvious point that many things became confused with the Philippines being a stop off point between Spanish ships too and from S. America, thus may have been transported from either direction, although I honestly have to say that actually holding one of these, they have absolutely no "machete" feel to them, at least compared to any weapon or tool even vaguely in that category.
I can't speak for Tom's piece, but mine has a hilt that has a similarity in common with many pices from India that I've not seen mentioned (nor that I thought to mention, sorry) in that the hilt is too small for me to hold comfortably in any position, as in most tulwars, while I've not found this to be true with most weapons indigenous to the Philippine Islands....likewise, the hilt on mine is covered with pieces of brass that have been cut, shaped and interlocked to cover the wooden frame, much like a Moroccan flyssa, with one of the museum specimens appearing to be similarly brass covered, even with a projecting tang, as in mine.
Likewise, while the blade is deep and broad-bellied, the tang construction is so weak that, in all honesty, I would expect it to come apart if used as a machete or similar field tool, much like the tangs on the head taking axes would prohibit them form being used to fell trees.
Can I just say that thre's a much stronger POSSIBLITY that these may be of Philippine origin? **grin**
The single strongest indicator, I guess, is that three of them showed up in the same collection (and only two jambiyas **another grin**), with only two that we know of having been run accross in the past 5 years or so.
Mike

18th February 2005, 09:23 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,397	Welcome Engar ... You are not intruding at all. You have actually helped us a lot in our discussions here. I am most grateful for the pictures you have posted. These are very helpful. Please do add your thoughts and comments here also. Ian.

18th February 2005, 09:40 PM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Ouch, ouch ouch!grin Points taken, Ian, although if you look closely at "the sword" on the right in this picture: http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2214.jpg I think you'll see that appear to me to be tha same diamond shaped cut outs as are present in the sword I have. I too saw the saw the khoumiyas and was hesitant to say anything because of that alone, although I do have to admit to being swayed and a little excited (who, me? grin) when I saw the 2nd two peaces. I also see your points in regards to the obvious point that many things became confused with the Philippines being a stop off point between Spanish ships too and from S. America, thus may have been transported from either direction, although I honestly have to say that actually holding one of these, they have absolutely no "machete" feel to them, at least compared to any weapon or tool even vaguely in that category. I can't speak for Tom's piece, but mine has a hilt that has a similarity in common with many pices from India that I've not seen mentioned (nor that I thought to mention, sorry) in that the hilt is too small for me to hold comfortably in any position, as in most tulwars, while I've not found this to be true with most weapons indigenous to the Philippine Islands....likewise, the hilt on mine is covered with pieces of brass that have been cut, shaped and interlocked to cover the wooden frame, much like a Moroccan flyssa, with one of the museum specimens appearing to be similarly brass covered, even with a projecting tang, as in mine. Likewise, while the blade is deep and broad-bellied, the tang construction is so weak that, in all honesty, I would expect it to come apart if used as a machete or similar field tool, much like the tangs on the head taking axes would prohibit them form being used to fell trees. Can I just say that thre's a much stronger POSSIBLITY that these may be of Philippine origin? grin The single strongest indicator, I guess, is that three of them showed up in the same collection (and only two jambiyas another grin), with only two that we know of having been run accross in the past 5 years or so. Mike Last edited by Conogre; 18th February 2005 at 11:37 PM.

18th February 2005, 08:57 PM	#1
engar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 14	Perhaps Engar could be persuaded to ask the museum officials if they have any additional information the next time he visits? The next week It´s true that exist a very big difference between catalogation in Museo del Ejercito and Museo Antropologico. The Museo del Ejercito have a very bad catalogation, may be they don´t have any person specialized on PI weaponry but not in Museo Antropologico. But I´m not and expert but it looks like they have no idea about PI weaponry. Anyway they mix weapons from different countries in the same "shield" but always you find very clear the info on the poster (not always correct info, LOL). A connection to Spanish America is something I have thought since I first saw these bolos. There was certainly extensive trade between the Philippines and Spanish America, especially Mexico. Indeed, several of the Governors of the Philippines during the Spanish period came from Mexico. Philippines Government depends on Mejico Government during long time. Excuse my interference on the thread.