PI Weaponry in Spanish Museums

Conogre · 18th February 2005, 07:03 PM

Good eye Rick...there are two more listed in photo #26.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2214.jpg
I was awestruck by the weaponry, literally, and especially noticed the kris with the clamshell guard, something I've never seen before.
The wide range of hilts and sizes of various weapons also show that there is MUCH to the field that we are unaware of, even following authorotative texts, and I suspect many atypical pieces have been erroneously passed off as hoaxes, fakes or compilation pieces in the recent past.
What a beuatiful series of photos!!
Engar, thank you ever so much.
Mike

Federico · 18th February 2005, 09:45 PM

Maraming Salamat Po Engar. Muchas Gracias. Many many many thanks. These pics are simply beautiful. The variety and detail are simply amazing. I loved the cup-hilted kris. Thank you...

moose · 18th February 2005, 09:50 PM

I'm speechless!

Engar, I can't thank you enough. This really moves things along as far as my collective knowledge.

moose

Yannis · 18th February 2005, 09:59 PM

Hey! All these photos of indonesian stuff and not even one from mediteranean area? Are you sure you took these photos in Spain?

Ops! Sorry, I didnt notice "PI" in title!

MABAGANI · 18th February 2005, 11:00 PM

Thanks Engar, now I really look forward to touring Spain again and seeing those great examples in person. Makes me wonder what's in storage and how they provenanced each artifact over three centuries.

Rick · 18th February 2005, 11:16 PM

Fascinating !
I have the twin of the blade that is shown by #4 in this picture .
Twisted core with applied laminated edges .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/HPIM2137.jpg

Battara · 18th February 2005, 11:52 PM

Mil Gracias. Thank you so much. I have noticed that some of the weapons are African mixed in with the rest of the PI stuff.

engar · 19th February 2005, 12:37 AM

Thanks for your kind words, but I prefer any weapon from your collection better than words

hehehehe (also a copy of Robert Cato book). I hope that the picture collection increase very soon but I can´t assure it.
I loved the cup-hilted kris.
I love it too, it´s my favourite item from the Army Museum. I will try to take more pics on it the next time, but his position it´s not vert good for pics.
I have noticed that some of the weapons are African mixed in with the rest of the PI stuff.
Yes, they mix weapons from differet countries/cultures but it can be possible to read in the poster of the item near every "shield" the origin of everyone.
The mayority of the Antropologic Museum items comes with the 1887 great exhition about PI. In 1886 the Spanish Government started a central comission in Manila to receive, classify and study all the objects that they received from the provinces and districts. After the great exhibition all the objects became part of the "Museo-Biblioteca de Ultramar". For the moment I haven´t more info about the pieces from this museum but they have a very competent librarian and I hope to have a lot of interesting information very soon. For the moment I have a very interesting photocopies about Metal Working from "Art in Sulu: A Survey. Philippine Studies, Vol. 11, 1963.David Szanton", if anyone are interested this photocopies I can scann them (but I forgot to photocopy the handle working).
All you are welcome in Madrid.

zamboanga · 19th February 2005, 03:03 AM

engar,

gracias for sharing the pictures.

what got my attention is that yakan pakkel (saddle) http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2178.jpg .

it comes complete with abaca seats. very similar to one i sold last year but this one comes with stirrups. among the moros, the yakans are most adept in horseriding. they even have horse races during their lami-lamihan festival.

carlo

Federico · 19th February 2005, 07:28 AM

At first I was surprised at the mix of swords, until I started reading the cards. Some are off (it would appear that at some point someone switch letters for a few of them), but most were surprisingly accurate if not sparse in their information. I liked reading the little description about smithing in the Philippines. Interesting to hear that this collection was mostly started in 1886. I was wondering about the narrow range in age of pieces displayed, but this would seem to be an explanation. Still the breadth of the collection is impressive. Particularly it is interesting to see such age on the tenegres. We had talked about them being old, but to see such truly old pieces in such marvelous shape was breath taking. Cant wait to see more pics of the cup hilted kris, and like Zel and Mabagani, the museums in Spain will definitely be visited some day down the road (well maybe a long ways down but someday). Once again thank you for sharing.

18th February 2005, 07:03 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Good eye Rick...there are two more listed in photo #26. http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2214.jpg I was awestruck by the weaponry, literally, and especially noticed the kris with the clamshell guard, something I've never seen before. The wide range of hilts and sizes of various weapons also show that there is MUCH to the field that we are unaware of, even following authorotative texts, and I suspect many atypical pieces have been erroneously passed off as hoaxes, fakes or compilation pieces in the recent past. What a beuatiful series of photos!! Engar, thank you ever so much. Mike Last edited by Conogre; 18th February 2005 at 07:24 PM.

18th February 2005, 11:16 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Fascinating ! I have the twin of the blade that is shown by #4 in this picture . Twisted core with applied laminated edges . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/HPIM2137.jpg Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 18th February 2005 at 11:27 PM.

19th February 2005, 03:03 AM	#9
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	wow! a pakkel! engar, gracias for sharing the pictures. what got my attention is that yakan pakkel (saddle) http://photobucket.com/albums/v672/e...t=HPIM2178.jpg . it comes complete with abaca seats. very similar to one i sold last year but this one comes with stirrups. among the moros, the yakans are most adept in horseriding. they even have horse races during their lami-lamihan festival. carlo

18th February 2005, 09:45 PM	#2
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Maraming Salamat Po Engar. Muchas Gracias. Many many many thanks. These pics are simply beautiful. The variety and detail are simply amazing. I loved the cup-hilted kris. Thank you...

18th February 2005, 09:50 PM	#3
moose Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portage, Michigan USA Posts: 44	I'm speechless! Engar, I can't thank you enough. This really moves things along as far as my collective knowledge. moose

18th February 2005, 09:59 PM	#4
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Hey! All these photos of indonesian stuff and not even one from mediteranean area? Are you sure you took these photos in Spain? Ops! Sorry, I didnt notice "PI" in title!

18th February 2005, 11:00 PM	#5
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	Thanks Engar, now I really look forward to touring Spain again and seeing those great examples in person. Makes me wonder what's in storage and how they provenanced each artifact over three centuries.

18th February 2005, 11:52 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Mil Gracias. Thank you so much. I have noticed that some of the weapons are African mixed in with the rest of the PI stuff.

19th February 2005, 12:37 AM	#8
engar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 14	Thanks for your kind words, but I prefer any weapon from your collection better than words hehehehe (also a copy of Robert Cato book). I hope that the picture collection increase very soon but I can´t assure it. I loved the cup-hilted kris. I love it too, it´s my favourite item from the Army Museum. I will try to take more pics on it the next time, but his position it´s not vert good for pics. I have noticed that some of the weapons are African mixed in with the rest of the PI stuff. Yes, they mix weapons from differet countries/cultures but it can be possible to read in the poster of the item near every "shield" the origin of everyone. The mayority of the Antropologic Museum items comes with the 1887 great exhition about PI. In 1886 the Spanish Government started a central comission in Manila to receive, classify and study all the objects that they received from the provinces and districts. After the great exhibition all the objects became part of the "Museo-Biblioteca de Ultramar". For the moment I haven´t more info about the pieces from this museum but they have a very competent librarian and I hope to have a lot of interesting information very soon. For the moment I have a very interesting photocopies about Metal Working from "Art in Sulu: A Survey. Philippine Studies, Vol. 11, 1963.David Szanton", if anyone are interested this photocopies I can scann them (but I forgot to photocopy the handle working). All you are welcome in Madrid.

19th February 2005, 07:28 AM	#10
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	At first I was surprised at the mix of swords, until I started reading the cards. Some are off (it would appear that at some point someone switch letters for a few of them), but most were surprisingly accurate if not sparse in their information. I liked reading the little description about smithing in the Philippines. Interesting to hear that this collection was mostly started in 1886. I was wondering about the narrow range in age of pieces displayed, but this would seem to be an explanation. Still the breadth of the collection is impressive. Particularly it is interesting to see such age on the tenegres. We had talked about them being old, but to see such truly old pieces in such marvelous shape was breath taking. Cant wait to see more pics of the cup hilted kris, and like Zel and Mabagani, the museums in Spain will definitely be visited some day down the road (well maybe a long ways down but someday). Once again thank you for sharing.