European Executioner Sword

Philip · 15th December 2006, 09:30 PM

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was horizontal, as explained once on an American TV documentary, and also per an artist's sketch that accompanied a newspaper article. Well, I guess those folks got it wrong, and I appreciate your correction.

fernando · 16th December 2006, 02:37 PM

In the most dramatic execution event of modern era in Portugal ( XVIII century ), some ten individuals belonging to three different noble houses, supposedly opposing the King, were publicly sacrificed at the scaffold, all in the same session, each of them in a different indescribable manner. The only one who was sentenced with a "simple" process, was the Marchioness of Tavora, the first one to be executed, as to save her from the scene of the others being meticulously tortured to death.
All sources mention that she was sitting on a bench. Some even say she was tyed to it by her waist, hands cuffed, head standing up. The beheading stroke was horizontal, given by the back. One only stroke, according to witnesses. There is some undefinition about the instrument. Some say with a cutlass, but the instructions were to use a great sword or a bullfighting sword (?), previously stored for the purpose.
fernando

fenlander · 16th December 2006, 04:52 PM

Being a lay man i was never quite sure what you meant by a horizontal be-heading. This is because i had always presumed that the victim would bow their head. I take it that you mean by this, that the victim was standing with the neck vertically when the sentence was carried out ? I had to think about what was meant by a "horizontal be-heading" for quite a while. In the TV series "Henry the VIII" I thought that Anne Bolien had her head down when it was time.
Can't believe you experts got me thinking for so long about what a horizontal executioners stroke was !

p.s.
i've never worked out if there is a spell checker on this forum. Does it exist ?

fernando · 16th December 2006, 08:57 PM

I bet this picture is more accurate than my english.
fernando

Philip · 17th December 2006, 07:43 AM

Fernando,
Thanks for the info and the illustration, which is appropriate regarding Fenlander's question.

The incident which you describe is the same one shown in color in a huge illustrated tome, "Historia de Portugal", probably dating from the 1930s, in the library of a friend of mine. Marvellous book, covering Roman Lusitania until the 1910 Revolution, lavishly illustrated with engravings, photos, and color lithos throughout. The picture as I remember it showed the execution of the nobles other than the unfortunate Marchioness -- one large scaffold with the victims tied to horizontally-mounted wagon-wheels, and made to suffer a variety of unpleasant fates.

It wasn't made clear in that book, but do you happen to know when was the last auto-da-fe in Portuguese history? I recall reading that the Inquisition was not formally abolished until the second decade of the 19th century, but didn't the trials and executions cease quite some time before that? Correct me if I mis-remembered the time of the abolition.

fernando · 17th December 2006, 04:15 PM

Hi Philip
The illustration with the Marchioness of Tavora being decapitated was just to support the idea of horizontal beheading, as it comes with a romanticized version written by the famous Portuguese writer Camilo Castelo Branco.
No doubt that the version with all the nobles ( and some servants ) being executed at the scaffold was more publicized ... some were laid on the wheels, others against St. Andrews crosses ( Aspas ) ... some with their bone canes mace crushed before being killed, some after being killed, depending from the sentence instructions ... others were burnt alife. Also the wheels were connected to ropes disguised under the scaffold, so that they would be strangled ( garroted ) with the wheel turning. The Marchioness was the first to be conducted there, and taken for a round on the scaffold, to both be seen by the public and to be made familiar to all these processes, described to her by the hangmen, before she was executed.
This event took place in 1759, and was a Secular ( civilian ) process, not an Inquisition ( religious ) exercize.
Eventually the processes used in torture by Seculars and Religiouses were distinct, each having their own "specialities".
You are right, Autos de Fé in Portugal started on 1536 and ended on 1821; however the last one with life sentence took place in 1761, when they burnt alife a Jesuit priest, named Malagrida, whom had actually been envolved with the Tavoras, in the famous conspiracy process a few years before, against the King Dom José.
fernando

Philip · 18th December 2006, 03:02 AM

Hi, Fernando
Thanks for the wealth of info.

I looked at the woodcut illus. that posted, studying it another time, and note that the headsman is not using a sword (as we have been mostly discussing here), but rather a broad saber, or a falchion. I have read about sabers being used for the purpose in countries like Hungary and Poland, but of course that may be due to the significant Oriental influence (Tatar and Turk) on those nations' arms and military traditions.

Was the curved blade common in Portugal for decapitation? I am thinking that its use might be influenced by the extended Lusitanian presence in the East: east coast of Africa near the Arabian peninsula, India, south China, etc. Would this be a reasonable conclusion or am I relying too much on this "eastern influence" thing?

I think I need to learn more in general about Portuguese swords. Maybe in the future you can start some other threads about the martial (fighting) swords of Portugal from the middle ages through the age of the discoveries. Posting some pics would help. There's so much in print about Spanish arms, but your country is virtually ignored in arms literature!

15th December 2006, 09:30 PM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Arabia Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was horizontal, as explained once on an American TV documentary, and also per an artist's sketch that accompanied a newspaper article. Well, I guess those folks got it wrong, and I appreciate your correction.

16th December 2006, 02:37 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	In the most dramatic execution event of modern era in Portugal ( XVIII century ), some ten individuals belonging to three different noble houses, supposedly opposing the King, were publicly sacrificed at the scaffold, all in the same session, each of them in a different indescribable manner. The only one who was sentenced with a "simple" process, was the Marchioness of Tavora, the first one to be executed, as to save her from the scene of the others being meticulously tortured to death. All sources mention that she was sitting on a bench. Some even say she was tyed to it by her waist, hands cuffed, head standing up. The beheading stroke was horizontal, given by the back. One only stroke, according to witnesses. There is some undefinition about the instrument. Some say with a cutlass, but the instructions were to use a great sword or a bullfighting sword (?), previously stored for the purpose. fernando Last edited by fernando; 16th December 2006 at 09:08 PM.

16th December 2006, 04:52 PM	#3
fenlander Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 62	wow i never realised ! Being a lay man i was never quite sure what you meant by a horizontal be-heading. This is because i had always presumed that the victim would bow their head. I take it that you mean by this, that the victim was standing with the neck vertically when the sentence was carried out ? I had to think about what was meant by a "horizontal be-heading" for quite a while. In the TV series "Henry the VIII" I thought that Anne Bolien had her head down when it was time. Can't believe you experts got me thinking for so long about what a horizontal executioners stroke was ! p.s. i've never worked out if there is a spell checker on this forum. Does it exist ?

16th December 2006, 08:57 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I bet this picture is more accurate than my english. fernando Attached Images

17th December 2006, 07:43 AM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	a picture worth a thousand words... Fernando, Thanks for the info and the illustration, which is appropriate regarding Fenlander's question. The incident which you describe is the same one shown in color in a huge illustrated tome, "Historia de Portugal", probably dating from the 1930s, in the library of a friend of mine. Marvellous book, covering Roman Lusitania until the 1910 Revolution, lavishly illustrated with engravings, photos, and color lithos throughout. The picture as I remember it showed the execution of the nobles other than the unfortunate Marchioness -- one large scaffold with the victims tied to horizontally-mounted wagon-wheels, and made to suffer a variety of unpleasant fates. It wasn't made clear in that book, but do you happen to know when was the last auto-da-fe in Portuguese history? I recall reading that the Inquisition was not formally abolished until the second decade of the 19th century, but didn't the trials and executions cease quite some time before that? Correct me if I mis-remembered the time of the abolition.

17th December 2006, 04:15 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Philip The illustration with the Marchioness of Tavora being decapitated was just to support the idea of horizontal beheading, as it comes with a romanticized version written by the famous Portuguese writer Camilo Castelo Branco. No doubt that the version with all the nobles ( and some servants ) being executed at the scaffold was more publicized ... some were laid on the wheels, others against St. Andrews crosses ( Aspas ) ... some with their bone canes mace crushed before being killed, some after being killed, depending from the sentence instructions ... others were burnt alife. Also the wheels were connected to ropes disguised under the scaffold, so that they would be strangled ( garroted ) with the wheel turning. The Marchioness was the first to be conducted there, and taken for a round on the scaffold, to both be seen by the public and to be made familiar to all these processes, described to her by the hangmen, before she was executed. This event took place in 1759, and was a Secular ( civilian ) process, not an Inquisition ( religious ) exercize. Eventually the processes used in torture by Seculars and Religiouses were distinct, each having their own "specialities". You are right, Autos de Fé in Portugal started on 1536 and ended on 1821; however the last one with life sentence took place in 1761, when they burnt alife a Jesuit priest, named Malagrida, whom had actually been envolved with the Tavoras, in the famous conspiracy process a few years before, against the King Dom José. fernando

18th December 2006, 03:02 AM	#7
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	muito obrigado, amigo! Hi, Fernando Thanks for the wealth of info. I looked at the woodcut illus. that posted, studying it another time, and note that the headsman is not using a sword (as we have been mostly discussing here), but rather a broad saber, or a falchion. I have read about sabers being used for the purpose in countries like Hungary and Poland, but of course that may be due to the significant Oriental influence (Tatar and Turk) on those nations' arms and military traditions. Was the curved blade common in Portugal for decapitation? I am thinking that its use might be influenced by the extended Lusitanian presence in the East: east coast of Africa near the Arabian peninsula, India, south China, etc. Would this be a reasonable conclusion or am I relying too much on this "eastern influence" thing? I think I need to learn more in general about Portuguese swords. Maybe in the future you can start some other threads about the martial (fighting) swords of Portugal from the middle ages through the age of the discoveries. Posting some pics would help. There's so much in print about Spanish arms, but your country is virtually ignored in arms literature!