North African dagger?

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2006, 06:33 PM

Hello Guy, have you got the book- Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique. {dagues,poignards,glaives,epees,tranchets et couperets} Approche regionale et classification technique, morphologique et esthetique. Tristan Arbousse Bastide. It is very good. It must be Toureg from the SW. I will post another knife latter. This could be a good thread.

Congoblades · 15th December 2006, 06:46 PM

Hi Tim, I don't have the book, if you say it is very good I will look after it, saw it already on a quick google search, it is not expensive so I will manage the get it

I will also post one more, little different but very nice, Toeareg knive later, it's not mine.

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2006, 07:56 PM

An extract from the afore mentioned book showing the foot print of Toureg style daggers. As can be seen at the southern and south eastern edges many other groups of people would have to be included. It will be hard to sort the sub groups out.

Emanuel · 16th December 2006, 01:35 AM

Hi,

There is one such dagger presently listed on eBay (I will post the link once it's finished) with a sheath very similar to that of some takuba. What's surprising is that these knives seem to be of high quality, they show fine craftsmanship, not like the cheap tourist trinkets. I wonder how old this style is...similar to the telek in some respects, but not quite a telek...I like it. The luxury, as Tim remarked, would indicate that it was made to be seen, not concealed like the telek.
What's also striking is how similar the features of this knife are to the Tuareg jewellery...the same profusion of stacked geometric figures. Art deco is aptly put.

Emanuel

Emanuel · 16th December 2006, 03:04 AM

Here is a snipet from a thread in the old forum "Report from Agadez" that I think concerns these daggers:

Quote:

In my earlier post concerning observations in Mali, I had mentioned the "heavy brass style" in Tuareg arms. I asked our guide, well traveled in the area, if he was aware of where it had originated from. He said that he was not. He also said that he believed it was possible that the worn gaudy edged weapons occasionally encountered may well have been made for tourists, but caught a local eye, and hence came to have a sort of legitimacy as an ethnographic edged weapon.

The picture is gone now, but perhaps our host Lee Jones could confirm whether his report concerns the knives above?

Emanuel

Congoblades · 18th December 2006, 08:21 PM

This is the other knife, it has simular decoration as the one above. This is mostly seen as a Foelbe knive (also known as Peul, Foelani, Felaata en Foela)?
But I still think this, and also the one obove, is more or less a touristic knife, well made but not for use, to blade is to weak for the real work

Tim Simmons · 18th December 2006, 09:47 PM

Just because the blade is not obviously blood thirsty does not mean it is made for tourists. This knife is no way a tourist piece. The blade is quite flexible and not immediately aggressive, given the light clothing worn in desert regions, I would take great pains to avoid being stab but such a weapon even if it has a large element of showiness.
The picture from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" suggests Bornu which I favour, over the illustration from "Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique" Toureg origin. The latter book having illustrations of a great many other styles all attributed to Toureg. I think this is any area where a lot of research is yet to be done.

18th December 2006, 08:21 PM	#6
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	This is the other knife, it has simular decoration as the one above. This is mostly seen as a Foelbe knive (also known as Peul, Foelani, Felaata en Foela)? But I still think this, and also the one obove, is more or less a touristic knife, well made but not for use, to blade is to weak for the real work Attached Images

15th December 2006, 06:33 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,940	Hello Guy, have you got the book- Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique. {dagues,poignards,glaives,epees,tranchets et couperets} Approche regionale et classification technique, morphologique et esthetique. Tristan Arbousse Bastide. It is very good. It must be Toureg from the SW. I will post another knife latter. This could be a good thread.

15th December 2006, 06:46 PM	#2
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Hi Tim, I don't have the book, if you say it is very good I will look after it, saw it already on a quick google search, it is not expensive so I will manage the get it I will also post one more, little different but very nice, Toeareg knive later, it's not mine.

15th December 2006, 07:56 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,940	An extract from the afore mentioned book showing the foot print of Toureg style daggers. As can be seen at the southern and south eastern edges many other groups of people would have to be included. It will be hard to sort the sub groups out.

16th December 2006, 01:35 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi, There is one such dagger presently listed on eBay (I will post the link once it's finished) with a sheath very similar to that of some takuba. What's surprising is that these knives seem to be of high quality, they show fine craftsmanship, not like the cheap tourist trinkets. I wonder how old this style is...similar to the telek in some respects, but not quite a telek...I like it. The luxury, as Tim remarked, would indicate that it was made to be seen, not concealed like the telek. What's also striking is how similar the features of this knife are to the Tuareg jewellery...the same profusion of stacked geometric figures. Art deco is aptly put. Emanuel

18th December 2006, 09:47 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,940	Just because the blade is not obviously blood thirsty does not mean it is made for tourists. This knife is no way a tourist piece. The blade is quite flexible and not immediately aggressive, given the light clothing worn in desert regions, I would take great pains to avoid being stab but such a weapon even if it has a large element of showiness. The picture from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" suggests Bornu which I favour, over the illustration from "Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique" Toureg origin. The latter book having illustrations of a great many other styles all attributed to Toureg. I think this is any area where a lot of research is yet to be done.