Moro or Malaysian Kris?

Battara · 15th December 2006, 05:29 PM

Pommels like this, according to Cato, were made early and are indicative of earlier pieces, 1700s? I think the mounts are later.

VVV · 18th December 2006, 04:34 PM

Just recieved this Christmas card from another collector (not active on the forum).
It's from the Tropenmuseum, Kris from the Sulu archipelago, with a full silver hilt collar resembling mine?

Michael

rasdan · 18th December 2006, 05:19 PM

The one on the card has malay/bugis fittings IMO whatever...and the blade is Sulu(?). This is an example. I had just seen one like this (solid brass hilt) a few weeks back. Its a relative's pusaka. Unfortunately i dont have pictures. Perhaps the key is the difference of the base of the hilt of a moro and malay keris...

VVV · 19th December 2006, 09:57 AM

Thanks all,

Seems to be a consensus that my Kris is of Malay/Bugis, not Moro, origin regarding the dress.
Do you think the blades were imported from the Sulu islands or produced "Sulu style" in Malaysia or Sulawesi?
Or maybe it was the Malay/Sulawesi style of blades that inspired that of the Sulu islands?

Michael

rasdan · 19th December 2006, 03:11 PM

In an old book Tuhfat al Nafis written in 1865, the kampilan and sundang (written as sandang) are attributed to the Sulus. They are not attributed to the Malay or Bugis although it is used by them. Pls correct me if i'm wrong.

A lotta of moro keris are redressed later in malay dress in Malaysia and Sumatra.

VVV · 19th December 2006, 04:27 PM

Thanks for sharing this info Rasdan!

The only source where I, at the moment, remember claims the Sundang as originating in South Sulawesi is Taman Indera by Sheppard.
But his speciality isn't exactly weapons even if the book has a chapter on Malay weapons.
So your source seems more probable that the Sulu Krisses were redressed in Malaysia etc.
On the Kampilan it's not usually attributed to the Sulu archipelago but Mindanao.

Michael

rasdan · 20th December 2006, 02:53 AM

No worries Micheal. I think its the Bugis that introduced Sundang to the Malays in the 1700's. Thats why the Malay will say that Sundang is from the Bugis and later made their own Malay/Bugis version. But who introduced Sundang to the Bugis? Is it theirs? I cant answer this. I think the Sulus. (no proof available at the moment).

Oh, yes.. in the book Kampilan is said to be used by the Lanun. Iranun perhaps? But i guess that the author is not a weapons specialist afterall. Im still checking on this entire theory actually. Maybe im wrong.

18th December 2006, 04:34 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Just recieved this Christmas card from another collector (not active on the forum). It's from the Tropenmuseum, Kris from the Sulu archipelago, with a full silver hilt collar resembling mine? Michael Attached Images

18th December 2006, 05:19 PM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	The one on the card has malay/bugis fittings IMO whatever...and the blade is Sulu(?). This is an example. I had just seen one like this (solid brass hilt) a few weeks back. Its a relative's pusaka. Unfortunately i dont have pictures. Perhaps the key is the difference of the base of the hilt of a moro and malay keris... Attached Images

15th December 2006, 05:29 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Pommels like this, according to Cato, were made early and are indicative of earlier pieces, 1700s? I think the mounts are later.

19th December 2006, 09:57 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all, Seems to be a consensus that my Kris is of Malay/Bugis, not Moro, origin regarding the dress. Do you think the blades were imported from the Sulu islands or produced "Sulu style" in Malaysia or Sulawesi? Or maybe it was the Malay/Sulawesi style of blades that inspired that of the Sulu islands? Michael

19th December 2006, 03:11 PM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	In an old book Tuhfat al Nafis written in 1865, the kampilan and sundang (written as sandang) are attributed to the Sulus. They are not attributed to the Malay or Bugis although it is used by them. Pls correct me if i'm wrong. A lotta of moro keris are redressed later in malay dress in Malaysia and Sumatra.

19th December 2006, 04:27 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for sharing this info Rasdan! The only source where I, at the moment, remember claims the Sundang as originating in South Sulawesi is Taman Indera by Sheppard. But his speciality isn't exactly weapons even if the book has a chapter on Malay weapons. So your source seems more probable that the Sulu Krisses were redressed in Malaysia etc. On the Kampilan it's not usually attributed to the Sulu archipelago but Mindanao. Michael

20th December 2006, 02:53 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	No worries Micheal. I think its the Bugis that introduced Sundang to the Malays in the 1700's. Thats why the Malay will say that Sundang is from the Bugis and later made their own Malay/Bugis version. But who introduced Sundang to the Bugis? Is it theirs? I cant answer this. I think the Sulus. (no proof available at the moment). Oh, yes.. in the book Kampilan is said to be used by the Lanun. Iranun perhaps? But i guess that the author is not a weapons specialist afterall. Im still checking on this entire theory actually. Maybe im wrong.