ID Help Needed

VVV · 15th December 2006, 09:18 AM

f.i. = for instance
You have mail.

Michael

Robert · 15th December 2006, 02:26 PM

Michael, I cannot thank you enough for the pictures. The only real difference that I can see between the two is that the one in the picture you sent has a total of 21 copper and brass bands on the scabbard while mine has a total of 25. Even the clover decorations are broken like mine. Do you know what the hole in the very end of the scabbard was for? Do you know if the peoples of East and West Samba dressed the same or was there a difference in fashion between the two? Again my thanks for your help.

Robert

VVV · 15th December 2006, 02:46 PM

Yes,

Yours is better. I don't know why there is a hole on your scabbard.
From what I have seen on just a few old West Sumba pictures I can't see any major difference in dress.
But I am neither a fashion nor a Sumba expert.
Try to find the book Islands and Ancestors by Newton & Barbier if you want to learn more about West Sumba, as well as the culture of other islands.

Good luck,

Michael

Battara · 15th December 2006, 05:27 PM

I'm ok with replacing missing brass and copper parts, called restoration (as long as done in the same style).

Robert · 22nd March 2007, 05:20 PM

Hi,
I'm bumping this in hopes that someone has come across any new information. This sword was kindly pointed out to me by Albert. The scabbard and grip are quite similar in style to mine but there was little information with it. Other than this one new picture I have no other information. HELP!

Robert

Robert · 9th October 2007, 06:56 AM

The only reference to a sword from West Sumba that I can find is in The legend of the people of Wanokaka in the village of Wai Wuanga about the PASOLA WANOKAKA. In the legend one brother has to repay the other everything that he had payed for the wife that he stole from him. One of these things was a sword (pahori). So far I have not been able to find any other information on the term pahori

or this sword. For those interested here is a link to the story http://www.petra.ac.id/eastern/ntt/wstsumba/pasola.htm

Robert

CourseEight · 11th January 2008, 11:23 PM

I'm bringing up this older thread because I recently purchased a lot of swords from Sumba on auction, and one of them was from West Sumba. The seller said that they were gotten from an estate sale, so its possible that, age-wise, they are contemporary to one another. First picures of all three swords. The two Kabeala don't strike me as being that old; one I *think* is made of spring steel, the other blade might be older. Both Kabeala handles are made of horn, polished shiny. Neither sword or handle shows much wear.

The West Sumba sword shows more wear, but sadly is missing all of its fittings. Handle and scabbard are wood, rough in places, possibly where there was metal over it. Handle has punch marks in the wood, so metal was probaly put on the handle and then the design punched into the metal. Also unusual is the silver-colored "inlay" in the blade. It certainly isn't pamor (its my impression that most Sumba blades are not pamored?) but rather just irregular lines put into the blade, almost as if trying (crudely) to look like pamor. There are also fairly deep cracks and fissures at about the 1/3 point, either places where the inlay has fallen out, or some other damage.

Finally some other random references to swords from West Sumba:

From here: "The men of West Sumba still wear the traditional parang sword as a part of everyday ware."

From here: "There are a chain of rituals related to the West Sumba occupations: (1) Ritual to sharpen parang swords (urata patama keto) to ensure that the parang sword or knives function properly while butchering cattle or while in used at the field."

From here: "PREPARATIONS FOR THE PURUNGU TA KADONGA RATU
The Purungu ta Kadonga Ratu takes place every other year from July 10 to July 23 in odd-number years, preceded by preparatory activities: ... 4. Extending of invitations to all the people of each clan, with the display of the ancestral spear, Umbu Koda, and the ancestral sword, Umbu Paku Togu, followed by a sacred dog, as endorsement."

Hope something here is of help to someone! Any additional information would, as always, be greatly appreciated.

--Radleigh

utami · 16th January 2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hi,
I'm bumping this in hopes that someone has come across any new information. This sword was kindly pointed out to me by Albert. The scabbard and grip are quite similar in style to mine but there was little information with it. Other than this one new picture I have no other information. HELP!

Robert

Dear Robert and forumite

I have documentation about parang sumbawa from my personal archive, mostly in bahasa. Please give me couple of days to get additional info and I will asked my wife to made english translation. I have a close friend who borned and spend this childhood in Bima, Sumbawa and his family still living in Bima, I'll try to get some detail info from him about parang sumbawa.

As far as I know, parang still used in daily activity and also for welcoming dance. This is a pic of welcoming dance, as you can see that old man is running with a parang in his hand and almost swinging the parang to us. An expression of welcoming guest

Robert · 17th January 2008, 01:32 AM

Hi Utami,
Thank you very much for the information and picture that you have posted. I am really looking forward to hearing more from you on the back ground of this sword. Can you possibly give an idea to the possible age of this sword? Is it a ceremonial sword, a show of wealth or prestige or an actual weapon used for combat? Again my thanks to you, your friends and family for any and all help offered to me in trying to identify this sword.

Robert

kai · 17th January 2008, 10:49 PM

Thanks, Noviar!

Quote:

An expression of welcoming guest

That's straightforward: As a friendly visitor you're not supposed to draw your own sword.

If you're still standing after that welcome, you can consider yourself being a guest...

22nd March 2007, 05:20 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi, I'm bumping this in hopes that someone has come across any new information. This sword was kindly pointed out to me by Albert. The scabbard and grip are quite similar in style to mine but there was little information with it. Other than this one new picture I have no other information. HELP! Robert Attached Images

9th October 2007, 06:56 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The only reference to a sword from West Sumba that I can find is in The legend of the people of Wanokaka in the village of Wai Wuanga about the PASOLA WANOKAKA. In the legend one brother has to repay the other everything that he had payed for the wife that he stole from him. One of these things was a sword (pahori). So far I have not been able to find any other information on the term pahori or this sword. For those interested here is a link to the story http://www.petra.ac.id/eastern/ntt/wstsumba/pasola.htm Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 9th October 2007 at 02:36 PM.

11th January 2008, 11:23 PM	#7
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	I'm bringing up this older thread because I recently purchased a lot of swords from Sumba on auction, and one of them was from West Sumba. The seller said that they were gotten from an estate sale, so its possible that, age-wise, they are contemporary to one another. First picures of all three swords. The two Kabeala don't strike me as being that old; one I think is made of spring steel, the other blade might be older. Both Kabeala handles are made of horn, polished shiny. Neither sword or handle shows much wear. The West Sumba sword shows more wear, but sadly is missing all of its fittings. Handle and scabbard are wood, rough in places, possibly where there was metal over it. Handle has punch marks in the wood, so metal was probaly put on the handle and then the design punched into the metal. Also unusual is the silver-colored "inlay" in the blade. It certainly isn't pamor (its my impression that most Sumba blades are not pamored?) but rather just irregular lines put into the blade, almost as if trying (crudely) to look like pamor. There are also fairly deep cracks and fissures at about the 1/3 point, either places where the inlay has fallen out, or some other damage. Finally some other random references to swords from West Sumba: From here: "The men of West Sumba still wear the traditional parang sword as a part of everyday ware." From here: "There are a chain of rituals related to the West Sumba occupations: (1) Ritual to sharpen parang swords (urata patama keto) to ensure that the parang sword or knives function properly while butchering cattle or while in used at the field." From here: "PREPARATIONS FOR THE PURUNGU TA KADONGA RATU The Purungu ta Kadonga Ratu takes place every other year from July 10 to July 23 in odd-number years, preceded by preparatory activities: ... 4. Extending of invitations to all the people of each clan, with the display of the ancestral spear, Umbu Koda, and the ancestral sword, Umbu Paku Togu, followed by a sacred dog, as endorsement." Hope something here is of help to someone! Any additional information would, as always, be greatly appreciated. --Radleigh Attached Images

17th January 2008, 01:32 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Utami, Thank you very much for the information and picture that you have posted. I am really looking forward to hearing more from you on the back ground of this sword. Can you possibly give an idea to the possible age of this sword? Is it a ceremonial sword, a show of wealth or prestige or an actual weapon used for combat? Again my thanks to you, your friends and family for any and all help offered to me in trying to identify this sword. Robert Last edited by Robert Coleman; 17th January 2008 at 07:26 AM.

15th December 2006, 09:18 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	f.i. = for instance You have mail. Michael

15th December 2006, 02:26 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Michael, I cannot thank you enough for the pictures. The only real difference that I can see between the two is that the one in the picture you sent has a total of 21 copper and brass bands on the scabbard while mine has a total of 25. Even the clover decorations are broken like mine. Do you know what the hole in the very end of the scabbard was for? Do you know if the peoples of East and West Samba dressed the same or was there a difference in fashion between the two? Again my thanks for your help. Robert

15th December 2006, 02:46 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Yes, Yours is better. I don't know why there is a hole on your scabbard. From what I have seen on just a few old West Sumba pictures I can't see any major difference in dress. But I am neither a fashion nor a Sumba expert. Try to find the book Islands and Ancestors by Newton & Barbier if you want to learn more about West Sumba, as well as the culture of other islands. Good luck, Michael

15th December 2006, 05:27 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I'm ok with replacing missing brass and copper parts, called restoration (as long as done in the same style).