North African dagger?

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2006, 08:09 PM

A nice dagger. Surely western Sahara. It looks pre ww2. I have always assumed that aluminium was only widely used after the ww1 as that is when production really took off. I now feel certain that this metal was in use much earlier, the last half of the 19th cent. Especially when one looks at quality pieces which I believe this knife represents. Some people might argue that the use of this metal reflects an art deco influence. I feel the use is more related to luxury, rather than chrome and futurism. Therefore from an earlier epoch. What a shame it is missing a scabbard. Not every piece with aluminium will be old I might add.

Tim Simmons · 14th December 2006, 09:13 PM

I also think, that although this dagger originates from north of the equator it is not North African. In my opinion it is from the southern part of the Sahara, the Sahel and quite old. The French were one of the first to promote the use of aluminium. The similarity with this Hausa hilt, the knobs in particular are too close to ignore, a wide spread phenomenon throughout this region.

katana · 14th December 2006, 10:13 PM

Wow.....very nice dagger Congoblades.

I have seen similar on eBay.....not as old as yours looks........but both were said to be Toureq. I think Tim might be onto something....many swords and knives from the North .....are described on eBay as Toureg..

..even when they are clearly Baja, Hausa etc

Congoblades · 15th December 2006, 05:15 PM

Thanks Tim and Katana. Tim, the knobs are indeed close to your knive. I have not much experience with such kind of knives, I have one wich is a more typical Toeareg knive (a recent and toeristic one) and I see some resemblances to, not in the knobs but more in general, the way it is made. Indeed a shame missing the scabbard, maybe it would be more clear to see where it is from

Greets, Guy

Congoblades · 15th December 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

....many swords and knives from the North .....are described on eBay as Toureg.. eg..

..even when they are clearly Baja, Hausa etc

Katana, you are absolutly right about that, it's better to be a bit suspicion for what is offered on ebay and do you some research... before

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2006, 05:33 PM

Hello Guy, have you got the book- Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique. {dagues,poignards,glaives,epees,tranchets et couperets} Approche regionale et classification technique, morphologique et esthetique. Tristan Arbousse Bastide. It is very good. It must be Toureg from the SW. I will post another knife latter. This could be a good thread.

Congoblades · 15th December 2006, 05:46 PM

Hi Tim, I don't have the book, if you say it is very good I will look after it, saw it already on a quick google search, it is not expensive so I will manage the get it

I will also post one more, little different but very nice, Toeareg knive later, it's not mine.

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2006, 06:56 PM

An extract from the afore mentioned book showing the foot print of Toureg style daggers. As can be seen at the southern and south eastern edges many other groups of people would have to be included. It will be hard to sort the sub groups out.

14th December 2006, 09:13 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I also think, that although this dagger originates from north of the equator it is not North African. In my opinion it is from the southern part of the Sahara, the Sahel and quite old. The French were one of the first to promote the use of aluminium. The similarity with this Hausa hilt, the knobs in particular are too close to ignore, a wide spread phenomenon throughout this region. Attached Images

15th December 2006, 05:15 PM	#4
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Thanks Tim and Katana. Tim, the knobs are indeed close to your knive. I have not much experience with such kind of knives, I have one wich is a more typical Toeareg knive (a recent and toeristic one) and I see some resemblances to, not in the knobs but more in general, the way it is made. Indeed a shame missing the scabbard, maybe it would be more clear to see where it is from Greets, Guy Attached Images

14th December 2006, 08:09 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	A nice dagger. Surely western Sahara. It looks pre ww2. I have always assumed that aluminium was only widely used after the ww1 as that is when production really took off. I now feel certain that this metal was in use much earlier, the last half of the 19th cent. Especially when one looks at quality pieces which I believe this knife represents. Some people might argue that the use of this metal reflects an art deco influence. I feel the use is more related to luxury, rather than chrome and futurism. Therefore from an earlier epoch. What a shame it is missing a scabbard. Not every piece with aluminium will be old I might add.

14th December 2006, 10:13 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Wow.....very nice dagger Congoblades. I have seen similar on eBay.....not as old as yours looks........but both were said to be Toureq. I think Tim might be onto something....many swords and knives from the North .....are described on eBay as Toureg.. ..even when they are clearly Baja, Hausa etc

15th December 2006, 05:33 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Hello Guy, have you got the book- Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique. {dagues,poignards,glaives,epees,tranchets et couperets} Approche regionale et classification technique, morphologique et esthetique. Tristan Arbousse Bastide. It is very good. It must be Toureg from the SW. I will post another knife latter. This could be a good thread.

15th December 2006, 05:46 PM	#7
Congoblades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 171	Hi Tim, I don't have the book, if you say it is very good I will look after it, saw it already on a quick google search, it is not expensive so I will manage the get it I will also post one more, little different but very nice, Toeareg knive later, it's not mine.

15th December 2006, 06:56 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	An extract from the afore mentioned book showing the foot print of Toureg style daggers. As can be seen at the southern and south eastern edges many other groups of people would have to be included. It will be hard to sort the sub groups out.