Meteoric iron used for keris's vs. for Indian weapons

Jens Nordlunde · 16th February 2005, 09:38 PM

I must say, I don't know much about kerise's - close to nothing if I have to be honest, but when reading another thread it seems to be close to impossible to recognice meteroric metal, when the blade has been made. Did I miss something?

Jens

Henk · 17th February 2005, 09:59 AM

I don't think you missed anything Jens, this is a very hard subject.

Tammens refers in his book to this forging with meteorite metall and mentions the differences between the meteorite pamor and the pamor made from pure nickle bars, mixed with the common iron. The pamor that comes up is very bright and the pamor from meteor iron has softer tones and gives more non pamor fields on the blade. But to be honest, I cann't recognize metoric pamor. But if we may believe the literature and research has been done, there should be alot of kerisses around made with meteoric pamor.

nechesh · 17th February 2005, 11:41 AM

Hi Henk. I believe that is the problem right there. I respect Tammens and his books, but i believe this is one instance where is is just mistaken.

Henk · 17th February 2005, 12:34 PM

Hello Nechesh,

I'm sceptical too, but Tammens refers in his book part 1 to dr. Groneman, who did research to the components of keris in Jakarta. He was the one who tested the blades and made the conclusion of meteoric iron. The same dr. Groneman did the same tests again in the Krupp nickle factories in Germany. Also is refered to the many meteors that were found and used to make pamorblades.

I don't know if you have the books of Tammens, maybe you should read that part. He refers also to a scientific magazine that analyzed the components of iron meteors that contained different nickle amounts.
The dutch book I refered to earlier in this thread mentioned the meteoric iron used for pamorblades especially from the prambanan meteor that was the largest one and brought eventually to the kraton.

Maybe mistakes were made, but free iron from heaven? Remember that we, Dutch have been there.

tom hyle · 17th February 2005, 12:47 PM

BTW, I don't advocate the cutting up of old blades for testing; it actually horrifies me, and I think it might be especially bad with SE Asian blades, where I think a concept of "completeness" is important, and especially especially bad to do to a keris. It's a little like you see bigfoot, so you cut him up to find out what he is; seems ironic somehow, and wasteful.

16th February 2005, 09:38 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I must say, I don't know much about kerise's - close to nothing if I have to be honest, but when reading another thread it seems to be close to impossible to recognice meteroric metal, when the blade has been made. Did I miss something? Jens

17th February 2005, 09:59 AM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	I don't think you missed anything Jens, this is a very hard subject. Tammens refers in his book to this forging with meteorite metall and mentions the differences between the meteorite pamor and the pamor made from pure nickle bars, mixed with the common iron. The pamor that comes up is very bright and the pamor from meteor iron has softer tones and gives more non pamor fields on the blade. But to be honest, I cann't recognize metoric pamor. But if we may believe the literature and research has been done, there should be alot of kerisses around made with meteoric pamor.

17th February 2005, 11:41 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Henk. I believe that is the problem right there. I respect Tammens and his books, but i believe this is one instance where is is just mistaken.

17th February 2005, 12:34 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hello Nechesh, I'm sceptical too, but Tammens refers in his book part 1 to dr. Groneman, who did research to the components of keris in Jakarta. He was the one who tested the blades and made the conclusion of meteoric iron. The same dr. Groneman did the same tests again in the Krupp nickle factories in Germany. Also is refered to the many meteors that were found and used to make pamorblades. I don't know if you have the books of Tammens, maybe you should read that part. He refers also to a scientific magazine that analyzed the components of iron meteors that contained different nickle amounts. The dutch book I refered to earlier in this thread mentioned the meteoric iron used for pamorblades especially from the prambanan meteor that was the largest one and brought eventually to the kraton. Maybe mistakes were made, but free iron from heaven? Remember that we, Dutch have been there.

17th February 2005, 12:47 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, I don't advocate the cutting up of old blades for testing; it actually horrifies me, and I think it might be especially bad with SE Asian blades, where I think a concept of "completeness" is important, and especially especially bad to do to a keris. It's a little like you see bigfoot, so you cut him up to find out what he is; seems ironic somehow, and wasteful.